rolanni | SPOILER THREAD: Dragon Ship eArc

I was supposed to be doing data entry for a non-profit last night but couldn't wait to read Dragon Ship. I almost wish it wasn't so good because I am once again on pins and needles for the NEXT book to come out. I was happy to see Theo get some more support, and wonder if the NorBears and the Clutch Turtles will meet in the future. Glad to see Hevlen and some of the players from the Academy. Really thought Win Ton would be more prominent in the beginning of the book (thank you for the imperfections in these characters/relationship!) but very nice to get a glimpse of Bechimo's past and current evolution. Kamele - wow! Really enjoyed sections with Miri and Val Con's little one.
THANK YOU! Nice dedications, too, by the way.
OK, made up for the data entries this morning, now to turn in the report, recuperate from the parade yesterday, and enjoy the green hills below me, 75' weather, and the hot tub! Our dog and cat will probably stretch out on the deck together while I rest. Take care.

Wow! Spiral Dancer and the lone little Ssussdriad...I'd wondered what finally became of them as the strike against the Iloheen proceeded along all its facets. But with all this timonium-based old tech around and now even Spiral Dancer passing through into this new universe, are we now at risk of either the Iloheen or the Other (sister, so to speak, to Lute's Lady Moonhawk and to Rool Tiazan's Lady) that wished to rule in their place?

Is there some old force (e.g., Iloheen or Other) behind and urging on both the Department Of Interior (DOI; Liaden) and the Galactic Trade Commission (GTC; Terran)? Or just the _same_ twisted motivations that incited the Iloheen to their path?

And is Bechimo (knowingly or unknowingly) in communication with any such ancient force behind DOI and GTC's predations?

Much more importantly, I must figure out how to bring the time it takes to read such great stories into better alignment with the time it takes great authors to write such great stories. Finishing an e-book I've been awaiting "so long" carries a bit of sad frustration with it, as I know my chance to read the NEXT story in this universe (which will, of course be even better, as each has been for decades now) is most likely about a year away.

Those publishers stuck in last century's thought patterns and business patterns will probably never understand the true market potential they could tap if they could better enable authors to get stories to readers as fast as they can be written. Fortunately, Baen's about the best at breaking the publishing logjam, though even they could still learn a few trick, IMHO.

Yikes! I forgot the most important bit: THANK YOU! THANK YOU! Love your characters and universes and situations....keep it coming, I'll read it all for as many decades as I last.

I was ecstatic at the appearance of Spiral Dancer. Never saw that coming at all, thought that lone ship & tree were long gone. (Impressed the tree still fits in the pilot's chair, too, I might add.)

And yes, I wondered too if the Iloheen might show up, which would be beyond dreadful.

Loved seeing Theo's old school mates & mentors. (Asu grew up!) And, really ... rescuing a guild outpost, pulling Asu and the others behind her, being declared a pirate ... she is so very definitely of Korval!

Just ... loved everything. (Except, well, I want more now.) Relieved, too, that Kamele arrived safely. I'd been worrying about her. After Uncle's little upcoming two-resurrection chamber experiment, this could get very interesting indeed for her!

There's also a post (http://liaden-spoilers.livejournal.com/22751.html) over in the apparently-not-much-used-anymore

liaden_spoilers community. But given this one seems to be more busy, I'll post a link over there.

I'm personally wondering if Bechimo will stop in at Tinsori Light, or perhaps Tinsori Light will pop into the "real" universe like the debris and lost ship apparently summoned by the faulty drive.

One of the many interesting things about this series is how many little forgotten odds and ends will resurface out of nowhere, like lost teapots from another universe.

I wonder if Daav and the presumably-to-be-re-embodied Aelianna will adopt Spiral Dancer as their new personal starship to replace the lost Ride the Luck? Some would say the thing belongs in a museum—or in the hands of the Scouts given the Old Tech in it that was "iffy" even back in Cantra's day. But Korval is ships, and ships gotta work.

I wonder if the ship still has any of Cantra and Jela's old personal effects in it? Doesn't seem like there'd have been time to unload much when they sent it off for decoy. I wonder if Cantra's logs have the story of the seedling in them? It could make for an interesting chapter, or several such chapters. Jelaza Kazone joyfully greeting the lost seedling, and communicating its story to those who bring it. Daav and Aelianna going through Cantra's effects, perhaps shedding light on bits of lost history that never was recorded in the logs. (And I'll bet the seedling ends up a member of Theo's crew, as Jelaza Kazone was of Cantra's, rather than being settled planetside somewhere.)

And oh how I ache to find out what happens to Kamele on Surebleak. The book ended just when things were getting the most interesting! (But then, so did Ghost Ship, so it wasn't unexpected.) I'll bet Korval ropes her into organizing the state of education and founding a university there. Or, more likely, once she sees the state of Surebleak, she ropes Korval into the project. It can't be coincidence that Kamele's special academic field is the history of education itself, so she knows the most about such things of anyone. (Heh. Though come to think of it, one of the things about the Liaden universe is that any time you're inclined to say "it can't be coincidence" you're generally right. :)

The Kamele parts of the story really had me on the edge of my seat. As Theo said, she's entirely too trusting of strangers. But that clever scout Daav prepared her without even meaning to—and Kamele is nothing if not an advertant scholar. Imagine that, the lessons of a pilot can serve a non-pilot too!

And I'm really looking forward to what happens when she meets Daav and Aelianna. It could be like something out of a romantic comedy of errors. How is down-to-earth Kamele going to accept the explanation, "Actually, she was with us all the time I was on Delgado. It's just that she was a disembodied spirit living inside my head"?

How is Uncle going to re-embody Aelianna anyway? Wouldn't the rebirthing unit need a genetic sample from somewhere? (Though I suppose if health care is the same on Liad as it is here, there would have been dozens of tissue samples taken during her lifetime, and any still-preserved specimens might well be available to someone with Uncle's connections.) Or did the tree put such a sample in its seed pods somehow? How does Uncle even know about Aelianna inside Daav's head?

As for Win Ton, will he perhaps need a Clutch Turtle healing to restore to him his pilot's reflexes? Or even just a standard Liaden healing? Or a seed pod from a friendly tree? Or will he have to adjust to no longer being a Pilot? It could go any direction.

Is this the middle novel in a trilogy with the last novel planned to tie up loose ends? Or will it be ongoing? I don't know, but I hope the Liaden series continues for a long, long, long time.

P.S. I was kind of annoyed by the spoilery nature of the cover art, but on reflection and considering how well it reflects the scene as described, I decided that it at least reveals the artist actually read what he was depicting, unlike a number of other covers (including some from Baen).

Edited 2012-04-29 21:41 (UTC)

There's no way to tell how long it's been for the seedling since it was dispatched on its mission. I always got the sense that the ragtag fleet traveling from the other universe got split up along the way and plunged into the current one at all different spaces and times. That's how you can have humans all over the place unaware of each other and their shared heritage (which is why Anne's work was so controversial), and some planets that clearly remember the escape (such as Sintia) and others that had no idea.

It's probably been a few years for it if it could be described as a tree, since it had barely sprouted when Cantra sent it off (Ch. 33 of Crystal Dragon). But probably not more than that, or it should be quite as big as its parent!

I expect the seedling will be quite surprised to learn how its parent has grown.

Edited 2012-04-29 23:48 (UTC)

As usual for every new book of yours that vI read, I always want the next one NOW.

As for the Galactic Trade Commission, I expect it's probably been pretty deeply infiltrated by the Department of the Interior and is simply their catspaw—remember, in Ghost Ship the GTC order was the portmaster's excuse to hand Theo over to the DoI agents. As we saw from the very first page of Agent of Change, the DoI is extremely adept at disguising Liadens as pure-strain Terrans.

Edited 2012-04-29 22:38 (UTC)

Of course, it could never be a bad novel--not with these writers and the universe they have crafted so well.
But, when I finished it I felt as if I had been Jumped into the WOT universe, vicinity book 9, where the plot never advances. At the end of the novel, the changes in situation were: Win Ton is out of the healer unit, Miri has given birth, Kamele has arrived (barely), and Theo is bonded with Bechimo. Period. In other words, less than two chapters worth.
No Shan and Dutiful Passage crew, no Anthora and RZ, no Nova, no Pat Rin, no Kareen or Luken, no any of their children, and--worst of all--Merlin only appears in one scene, asleep and taking up window seat space (of course, having four cats, this is very usual; but none of mine are wizards (except for getting treats).
I certainly recognize the difficulty in dealing with all these characters and advancing their stories in a single book smaller, than, say, a WOT novel. But, the authors succeeded in this so brilliantly in Ghost Ship that I expected more.
I will buy it when it comes out, just as I have bought both paperback and ebook versions of every other novel and collection. And I will reread it as I have reread them all--that is to say, several times.
But I expected more.

I don't think that's quite fair. A lot of stuff happens, just not the stuff you wanted to see happen. It seems that where Ghost Ship is about half-and-half sequel to the Agent of Change cycle and the Fledgling cycle, Dragon Ship is about 90% devoted to continuing Fledgling, and most of what happens—situations and characters encountered—relates to those books. Which, for the people who really liked those situations and characters, is a treat even if we might have preferred to see a little more of characters from elsewhere.

It feels like a "middle" novel, kind of like Plan B, which you could similarly oversimplify to say all that really happened was everyone went to Clan Erob and fought some Yxtrangi (and Pat Rin and Cheever McFarland were nowhere to be found), but which set up for all the action and plot advancement to follow in I Dare. So if the same sort of thing happens here, the novel that comes after Dragon Ship in sequence should be a hell of an event. But just as you couldn't have gotten to I Dare without Plan B, so too is Ghost Ship necessary to get to what comes next. (Probably in ways we can't even guess right now. Who knows what seemingly minor event in the middle of the book will take on greater significance in a new light?)

Now, if only we knew when the sequel was planned for…

Edited 2012-04-30 08:35 (UTC)

Every Sunday I clean my house, its what I do. I have three cats, they are not as tidy as I would like them to be, maybe if I'd had a clicker during that critical cat training period of 4 to 8 weeks old (saw it on T V), I could have taught them to dust or something but that window is long since closed and they won't even put away their own toys. So anyway, I clean on Sunday but not this Sunday, this Sunday I read a wonderful book. Thank you.
Toni

Towards the end of the e-Arc, the company name morphs into Luck Cat Ltd for a few paragraphs. I think I would almost have preferred that name for Theo's company, but I like laughing Cat too. Did anyone else start thinking about the Cheshire cat when cloaking devices started being discussed?

The note that Uncle's assistant? had the color eyes she usually prefered makes me think that it is not necessary to "transfered" into a clone of ones origional body. Perhaps any cloned body without life experience and having a basicaly blank brain can be the recepient of a transfered personality?

I so did think it but I discounted it because, obviously, I am a cat person but also I have an Alice in Wonderland drawing over my bed! But the whole disappearing until all you can see is teeth, is so Korval!
Toni

well, if you think Plan B is a valid comparison, more power to you.
I disagree. At the time Plan B was written (10 years ago), there were only three story arcs: Val Con/Miri, Priscilla/Shan/Dutiful Passage, and Liad. All three of those arcs were covered in the novel, as well as Nova and Clutch POVs in various locations and even a JS Kiladi POV, so we (at least I) had a sensing of the plot(s) going forward for every arc, and an understanding of what was going on for each one.
However, by the start of Dragon Ship, the authors had introduced many more story arcs, some of which I mentioned above. They were ignored--as you say 90% (or more) of DS only covers one arc. And that is my disappointment.
And I am sure you have seen the blog post that says the sequel has not been planned, or even pitched.

Didn't Steven Brust at one time form a musical group called Laughing Cats?

Cats Laughing, I think the name was.

It was bittersweet from an external perspective, in one respect--I first met Rusty Hevelin back when I was 17 or 18, at the first or second SF/F convention I went to... he was a major personage in the SF/F community. I chortled when Rusty Hevelin the norbear appeared in one of the books....

After reading Dragon Ship and a rolanni comment about viewpoints for Necessity's Child, I'm wondering if the Young Tree is a viewpoint character....

Speaking of Trees, the Tree knew/knows Aelliana and approved of her, and I think had fed nuts to her. The tree could have some of her DNA and applied it to the nut it gave Daav, perhaps?

I started thinking early on that there were lots of things that weren't going to get resolved in Dragon Ship. I was hoping/expecting to see a Kamele/Aelliana/Jen Sar/Daav menage. I was looking forward to Kamele meeting up with Daav yos'Phelium and having to deal with Daav yos'Phelium occupying the body Kamele was familiar with as Jen Sar Kiladi, and of Daav yos' Phelium who had lost part of himself which had been Jen Sar Kilad, having some cognitive dissonance and finding Jen Sar again and having to reintegrate himself.... something similar happened with Aelliana at the end of the first book she ws in and going forward in the early parts of Mouse and Dragon, where she was dealing with going from the abuse victim withdrawn professor to Courier Pilot Caylon, Delmae Korval. Also, I was looking forward to Kamele meeting Aelliana incorporate, especially since it was Aelliana who first noticed Kamele and was first attracted to her.

When Kara showed up and turned out to have a past and renewed relationship with Theo, I was hoping for a menage there, too, with them and Win Ton....

I liked seeing Asu and Kara show up. I wonder how many people know Theo is the biological daughter of Daav yos'Pheluium? Theo didn't it looked like tell that to Asu, only that Theo was under contract to Korval. I do want to know more about how the ship Asu was on dropped its passengers and hightailed it to the evacuation of Codrescu, and what the ramifications of that to Asu are. Hmm, thinking about Asu, I wouldn't be surprised if Asu manages to find out better than Theo's awaresness, the relationship of Theo to Korval.... The Theo-centric view of Asu in Saltation and Ghost Ship, shows its shortcomings (or rather, Theo's limitations as socially clueful) in Dragon Ship. (hmm, for that matter, "Dragon Ship" might better refer to Cantra's vessel, than to Bechimo! Bechimo is at least a part-owner of himsel, and while he's under contract to Korval, he is not so far at least a Korval ship. Cantra's ship is, as the property of Cantra and her heirs, up until it shows up as salvage (though arguably it's the property of the Tree on-board, which is sapient--but a minor! And if the property of a minor Tree, that puts the minor Tree and its property as subordinate to the original Tree, planted on Surebleak and Clan Korval which tends the Tree and which Tree tends the members of Clan Korval. Uh-oh, the young Tree is happy to have Theo show up.... I wonder what Bechimo make of the situation.... Theo doesn't have the same attitudes to Trees as her many times great-grandmother Cantra. "Jela's damned tree....") As salvage, the ship and contents belong to Laughing Cat...
On another point, Delm Korval is supposed to be the best pilot in Korval....

Regarding Win Ton, he was rebuilt from the DNA up, meaning probably that all the fine-detail and such body-training he'd had, no longer apply. The Uncle noted that he'd gone through such reconstruction, and the Uncle stayed or retrained successfully as pilot. Presumably the same's happened with Dulsey, too. (The Uncle may be been somewhat mendacious about his vessel's healing units' abilities--What Bechimo definitely had that was not on the Uncle's vessel, was an uncontaminated sample of Win Ton).

And another stray thought just hit me--dance and Theo. The name of Cantra's ship is Spiral Dancer. I keep thinking the Theo is Cantra reincarnated... However, Theo -has- ship she's bonded with, a ship many hundreds of years newer than Spiral Dance...

In a way, it is nice to have a book that stays mostly along one story arc rather than covering huge leaps of ground. Not that I have strong objections to books with a more "stranded" style.

Anyway, any new book makes me happy, and so long as the authors continue to write, I expect to continue to be pleased.

I hate watching the chapter counter advance inexorably to the end...just as much as I dislike the thinness of remaining pages of a paper book.

I expect to see loose ends from DS show up in at least two novels and even a short story or two.

I loved the understatement of saying that Korval had completed a contract...

Just because it hasn't been pitched or contracted for doesn't mean they don't know what's going to happen in it. Over on the Binjali Baen Bar group Sharon explained that it was down to the way the books had been contracted for by Toni, and given her druthers she'd rather have swapped Dragon Ship with Necessity's Child so as to evenly space out one non-sequel book between each sequel instead of two in a lump.

This does seem to imply that the Dragon Ship sequel will be the next Liaden book contracted for after these two (assuming something else doesn't happen to change things, which is always possible).

At any rate, I can't see Toni not wanting to contract for the next book, unless the entire Liaden fandom completely dries up and blows away. So we'll wait a bit for it. We're still assured of getting it sooner or later. That's a lot better off than folks were in, say, 1989.

"Hundred year son" -- Hani saying, from the Chanur books....

Meanwhile, Korval still has Liaden partisans, and the Scouts seem to have followed Korval to Surebleak.... Win Ton's responsibility to bring Bechimo into Scout jurisdiction, hmm, the Scouts have an affiliation with Korval. If the Scouts are still looking to Korval as a consequence of such things not only of the original contract that Cantra made, but also from Korval's long history of involvement with the Scouts (Val Con's a retired Scout, Daav is a former Scout, Daav's mother was a Scout I think, and the expectation probably is that Lizzie will be sent to be a Sout, too, when she come of an age for it) and sponsorships...

For that matter, perhaps the Plan B comparison is more apt than I'd thought. After all, Liaden fans had to wait for two more books after Plan B (Local Custom, Scout's Progress) before they got I Dare, too. And it ended with much the same type of final scene (a surprise visitor arriving) as Dragon Ship.

Edited 2012-05-01 04:15 (UTC)

It's dread and anticipation seeing the chapter counter advance on a Liaden Universe (TM) book, on the one hand, there will be the tying up of plot elements of the key plot(s) in the book, on the other hand, with the end of the book, comes the end of the book, and there won't be more until the next book which gets released, and the next book in that universe coming out, isn't the sequel to Dragon Ship.... there's Necessity's Child, and there's the sequel to Balance of Trade, and then there will be the two Carousel sequels, before there can/will be a Dragon Ship sequel.
DS threads tied off include:
1) Win Ton's healthy again, rebuilt without the Department of Interior contamination.
2) Kamele has found out what happened to Jen Sar Kiladi, having safely arrived at the (relocated) Korval Clan House, having outwitted the DoI agents out to collect her and perhaps make her a hostage to use again Theo and Korval.
3) Kara is out of reach of the Eylot's xenophobic groundhogs and a member of the crw of Bechimo, at the cost of exile/being persona non grata on her home planet, and possibly being estranged from her Clan, perhaps even declared ritually dead as had been done to Ren Zel, Anthora's lifemate. Since the readers have never gotten to read any scenes with Kara's relatives in them and Kara interacting with them, what her sattus in her clan is, is unclear... Ren Zel's legal death was due to politics, his late, reckless contract wife's powerful Clan required it. Priscilla Mendoza, a Terran, was also declared dead to family and banished for political reasons.
4) Miri and Val Con have a healthy rambunctious daughter, showing family initiative....
5) A DoI stronghold's been identified and Bechimo successfully got the hell away from it
6) Laughing Cat has started building up trading partners and a loop, and has provide Korval highly worthwhile business information on the current status of worlds and stations in the region of space convenient for trade with Korval being situated relocated to Surebleak.
7) Under Master Trader Shan yos'Galan's direction/tutelage, Shan's cousin and business partner Theo Waitley (I'm recalling that Shan has a fully Terran cousin on Dutiful Passage who was in training as a Trader on Dutiful Passage way back in Conflict of Honor) is learning practical Trading.
8) Bechimo at long last has bonded with a Captain, has crew, and has meaningful journeying to do and humans to protect and them to in turn to help maintain him and keep him company and provide purpose for him.
8) Bechimo is coming to terms dealing with ambiguities and with inconsistencies between his original programming directing him to abvoid/stay clear of Korval, and discovering that the Captain he chose/agreed to when/after Win Ton boarded Bechimo and Bechimo offered Win Ton the Lesser Pilot's position (an early part of Ghost Ship, if I recollect correctly, was from Bechimo's perspective, and showed Bechimo actively choosing to offer Win Ton the Lesser Pilot's position/key, -not- the Captain's key... and Bechimo approved when Win Ton provided the Captain's key to Theo Waitley), was of Korval and furthermore was negotiating a deal to be under contract to Korval. In Ghost Ship Bechimo acceded to the proposed contract, in Dragon Ship, Bechimo accepted the conditions.
9) The Uncle's accepted that Daav yos'Phelium's original body and spirit are so injured, that a rebirth is necessary--and has seen fit to have both of the remastering units on his ship set to reconstruct not only Daav yos'Phelium, but whoever/whatever the second Tree nut is for (and the question arises, just how much does the Uncle know about the Tree and its species?

Also remember that both Cantra and Jela spent time in the hidden healing unit on Spiral Dancer. What are the odds that it kept DNA samples of them. Jela also left a copy of his DNA profile to Cantra. Did the unit also record their memory patterns? Who knows.

SPOILER THREAD: Dragon Ship eArc

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Every Sunday I Cean

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