Less on Word, More on Other Software

[rolanni]

OK, you knowledgeable bunch, you.

I drive a Mac at the day-job and, despite having used it for a year to make about a bazillion (really classy, if I do say so myself) posters (yes, in Word. Yes, I am made of Awesome. Also, patience. Or was that Sheer Bloody-mindedness? Whatever.) and do all the other report-making, database wrangling and whatever it is that somebody decides that I need to have been doing Forever for them this week with it, I don't know anything about, say, installing software on it. This is not an Insurmountable Problem, maybe; there is ITS. I can probably get the backing of my bosses (all of whom are In Awe of the design work I've been doing) to install a program that actually works, as long as it doesn't, like, come out of the departmental budget.

The heartbreaker, of course, is that all my artist and designer friends swear that Mac is an Artist's Machine; you can do beautiful work on it! Which makes me wonder just what I could do if I wasn't tied to the abomination that is Word. This all kinda came to a head today because I'm trying to do something that I have done many times in, ferghodssake, Publisher, and I can't cajole Word to play nice.

Suggestions, commentary, donations of large sums of money?

Comments

[deire.livejournal.com]

Trial versions of various softwares. You only get a month, but a month each should keep you going awhile. Corel, Adobe, Published, Painter, Photoshop, check out Imagine FX web site for software of interest. Though you still need a graphics tablet to make 'em really sing, it's better than Word.

[jhetley.livejournal.com]

I'm no expert, but I have read that "Pages", part of the "iWork" suite, does good layout and newsletter stuff. Not a full-featured word processor, although the latest version gets closer to that.

You might take this to the Mac discussion group on sff.net -- sff.discuss.macintosh -- a bunch of professional Mac-programming and Mac-using people hang out there.

[autopope.livejournal.com]

Pages is really a lightweight page layout/DTP package -- emphasis is on design rather than writing text.

There's also NeoOffice (www.neooffice.org) a Mac port of OpenOffice (i.e. works mostly like MS Office, only it's free).

If your bosses are somewhat corporate in outlook, you might get best results by demanding a copy of Adobe Creative Suite -- it's about $1200 for the entry-level version, which comes with Photoshop (image manipulation), Illustrator (vector graphics) and InDesign (kick-ass DTP package that's eating Quark's lunch). The steep price might qualify as "reassuringly expensive", and folks in academia can get it for about half price (or even more steeply discounted).

Warning: these are power tools! There's a lot to learn. Flip side: if you can add them to your CV it's a big plus -- they're the professional tools and folks who can use them competently are in demand.

[jhetley.livejournal.com]

I'd forgotten that Sharon was dealing with Bureaucrats, where if it's more expensive, they're more likely to approve it...

Yeah, try for the Adobe package.

[sleary.livejournal.com]

With university discounts, the design bundle will run more like $300; the web bundle maybe $400.

And yes, by all means, ask for this! It is a delight.

CS3

[wdonohue.livejournal.com]

The advantage for CS3 is that Steve is (I believe) already rasslin' with it for SRM book production. The downside is that if you don't have background in layout, there is a learning curve to get through. If you DO have layout experience, I've found CS3 much easier to pick up than Quark. In messing with Pages, it's reversed: layout experience may trip you up when you first start working with it. Oh, and iWork also comes with Numbers (spreadsheet) and Keynote (slides) if you don't want to mess with Office. They do import/export some Office formats, too.

-- Brian sticking his oar in again --

[k-10b.livejournal.com]

The industry standard is Adobe's Creative Suite 2, which comes with Photoshop, Illustrator, InDesign (layout program), and Acrobat Distiller (making pdfs). You can get all of it bundled, or purchase the individual software apps. InDesign's been around for about 5 years now, I think.

Being in the not for profit world, I just recently received all this with my new hugely beautiful iMac with 24" screen. The Library moved to all share-ware, and Unbuntu won't run our big design and layout programs easily. Hence we moved to Mac...no more PCs/Microsoft here at Howard County Library. Colleagues come by just to visit my computer.

I'm still learning my way around InDesign, but it's miles ahead of Quark and I really like Quark. Quark is handy and practical... but quickly being replaced by InDesign with commercial printers. I don't know how much you print in-house vs. commercially.

I don't know if this helps you, or just frustrates you more. If it's the latter, my apologies. Honesly, look into Open Office Draw. I have to use it for templates for Information Librarian to promote their programs, and other such stuff. I was mildly impressed.

Kristen

Agreement, but a quibble on version numbers

[sleary.livejournal.com]

Creative Suite 3 has been out for some time, and parts of 4 are now in public beta testing. I wouldn't buy 2.

Re: Agreement, but a quibble on version numbers

[k-10b.livejournal.com]

oops... you're correct. CS3 is what I am currently working with.

[rahaeli.livejournal.com]

Going a little sideways from publishing/design software, allow me to throw in a vote for Scrivener (http://www.literatureandlatte.com/scrivener.html) -- it won't do what you want it to do for this project, but it's fabulous at letting you track and shuffle pieces around, and for organizing and putting together large projects of lots of tiny pieces, nothing beats it. (It's also interoperable with Word.) It won't be the kind of layout program you want, but it can be another useful tool in the toolbox of organization.

(Also, I have known writers who have bought Macs just so they can use Scrivener. I wouldn't dream of revising a novel in anything but.)

Trade-offs, trade-offs

[jane-barfly.livejournal.com]

No one program is perfect.

The Adobe Creative Suite is awesomely powerful, but like any really powerful thing, it's got a steep learning curve. And it's power-hungry. But if there's pretty to be made, or publishing or designing to be done, it can be done with the Creative Suite. I don't use it at home, because our G3s and G4 would be sloooooowwwww with it. Plays best with fast machines and nice big monitors. But to see what can be done with it, I recommend looking at hand2mouse.com. Note, of course, that since it's Adobe, the full-fledged suite has come in the past with the full-fledged ability to make and customize .pdf files. Even .pdf forms to be filled out on-line.

Neo-Office (open software) has come out with a more stable version than in previous years, and the Draw program and the Presentation program are things that I have used to quickly work up moderately nice stuff. (I have, I am told, the design sense of an engineer. Stuff should be clean, should make the point, should look good, and should be something people don't mind hanging around. I don't have the artistry to make it sparkle or to have people ask, "Who's your designer?" Someone artistic could make really nice stuff with NeoOffice Draw and Presentation.)

But like Microsoft products, Neo-office products have their own quirks. Work with Draw and Presentation to figure out what you need to do, quickly. (Presentation is awesome for making a master table card, and making lots of little table-cards based on it. I used to do the same thing in PowerPoint, and in Word. I know - it's a bastardized use, but it works.) Unlike Microsoft Products, anything you do in Neo-Office on the Mac can be saved or exported as a simple .pdf with no additional programs needed.

*Danger Will Robinson* If you decide to use the Neo-Office text program, be aware that it is not quirk-free. It just has -different- quirks than MS Word has. And it is no bleeding better than MS Word at handling hierarchical lists. And the hierarchical lists that you worked your eyes out in Word /will/ be all messed up in Neo-Office /Text/. See "quirks, but different." But Text is not Draw is not Database is not Spreadsheet. On the whole, I've been happier with Neo-Office in the past couple of years than I have been with MS Office. Not least because of the native .pdf thing. It means that Neo-office plays much better with professional printers than MS Office does.

iWorks works. I have not used it myself, but I have family members out-of-state who do, and who like it. It's a suite, but it does have layout software included.

If it's budget, go for Neo-Office. Things are *just* different enough from MS Office that you will have a learning curve. For instance, graphical text is not called WordArt, it's called Fontwork. And it's most easily accessed through the drawing toolbar. After a couple of hair-tearing projects, though, Neo-Office does the trick.

If it's power, and you have the computational power and the kewl monitor, go for Adobe. Nothing nothing nothing that can't be done with Adobe.

If it's IT folks with their knickers atwist at either the thought of spending beaucoup bucks or at that Evul Open Software on their campus, go for iWorks.

Laura

Re: Trade-offs, trade-offs

[elbales]

Unlike Microsoft Products, anything you do in Neo-Office on the Mac can be saved or exported as a simple .pdf with no additional programs needed.

I have MS Word and print things to PDF all the time. But my version is older; did they get rid of that functionality in later versions?

Re: Trade-offs, trade-offs

[muirecan.livejournal.com]

Yes apparently Adobe grumbled at Microsoft about them including the ability to print as a PDF. But you can still add the ability to print as a pdf to your computer simply get cutepdf from its website and install it. Then you can print from any program and generate a pdf without having Adobe installed. Or you can install Adobe Acrobat or CS3 and have the Adobe Distiller to print with.

[(Anonymous)]

I have no personal experience with it, but in the open source world, there is Scribus, http://www.scribus.net/. I've heard good things, it might be worth a shot and some time to learn.

--Susan

[cailleuch.livejournal.com]

CS3 is the way to go -- my vote anyway. Educational versions easy to come by and Adobe Creative Suite 3: Design Standard w/FREE ClipArt 3 Million - Mac is $399.98 educational. InDesign is what you need for layout which is part of this package. The free trial of InDesign is currently unavailable until July. Sometimes the free trials are save disabled and not ever having downloaded this one I don't know if that is the case here.

I've been using InDesign since it came out and love it. Basic stuff is realitively easy to learn if you have done any design with other programs. I use a Wacom tablet but that has a fairly steep learning curve for some people. I teach people to use one with Painter and for some people really easy and other people (particularly non-drawers/pencil oriented people) have a harder time wrapping their head around it. Wacom tablet not necessary to use InDesign.

[(Anonymous)]

What speed/type of Mac do you have? CS3 doesn't play well with older, slower, stuff, IMO.

YMMV, but I think a big question is what system. $400 is a bargain for Cs3 if it runs well, but no bargain at all on a G3 or a G4.

Laura

[jane-barfly.livejournal.com]

What speed/type of Mac do you have? CS3 doesn't play well with older, slower, stuff, IMO.

YMMV, but I think a big question is what system. $400 is a bargain for Cs3 if it runs well, but no bargain at all on a G3 or a standard G4. CS3 needs PowerPC G4 or G5 or Intel Duocore.

Laura

[cailleuch.livejournal.com]

I'm an animator so I need and have an Intel Mac. We have it running on G4s and G5s at school.

[noiseinmyhead.livejournal.com]

almost all mac software is no brainer install you download, or put in disc and then click and it installs it for you, if it needs info it asks you, most of the time it does not need info from you, it i sall hiding somewhere on the computer...

[katmoonshaker.livejournal.com]

Okay, first I have to say that I'm in a mixed marriage. I use a PC and my husband is a Mac user. At work they're the same... they use both. At work they use InDesign and the Adobe CS3. It's all Illustrator, Illustrator, Illustrator there. As for me, I came up via Publisher and I much prefer CorelDraw. I currently have CorelDraw X4 which is the most current version. I was using CorelDraw 12 which I'd gotten on the cheap off of eBay (eeeeeBbbbbbaaaaaaay... uh, um, sorry... where was I?) My husband uses Illustrator. You can often find an old version of a program for under $50 on eBay. ::stares innocently at the ceiling::

mac pages

[(Anonymous)]

Hi Sharon,
if you have mac... get "Pages".... it does pictures and words in all kinds of interesting and doubtless easier than word ways.... depends how new your mac is.... my pages came with OSX 10.4 ..... it is really nice.
and PLEASE get back to saltation when you can!
Thank you,
Henya

[laurajunderwood.livejournal.com]

I have designed posters, bookmarks, and other things in PrintShop without trouble. In fact, it is fairly simple and the PrintShop Pro version has a lot of stuff you can do either using their templates or starting from scratch, and I think there is a MAC version, and it is usually much cheaper than Adobe.

Word can be used to do the same stuff (I have created bookmarks and flyer without even bothering to use their templates--but that's just me). But I don't recommend it since the files turn into monsters.

Laura J. Underwood