What goes around poll

[rolanni]

There's been a sort of movable discussion wandering through a couple writer communities I'm part of, brought on in part by writers who are trying to figure out how best to grow their audience, make a living, and maybe even get a bigger piece of the action.

Not surprisingly, many of these conversations come 'round to web serialization for fun and profit, what works, what doesn't. Some folks are of the opinion that giving one's work away "for free" is always a bad deal for the writer, some folks think that giving work away "for free" is the wave of the future, whereupon we're all gonna starve, some folks think that asking readers to kick in a buck for downloading a novel direct from the author is tacky, some think it's OK, but that no one will pay.

In other words, it's a complicated subject and lots of bright people are struggling to make sense of it, and to figure out how to work current realities to their benefit while simultaneously trying to figure out where current realities are going to take us in one, three, six years.

Now, Steve and I did well with our web serializations. I honestly don't know if that's because of a Paradigm Shift, or because we have Incredibly Cool Fans(TM), or because we were writing a Liaden story -- or a combination of all those factors and a bunch that I haven't thought of.

In the spirit of trying to figure some stuff out myself, I offer the following poll, going from the general to the specific.


[Poll #1381306]

Comments

[amm-me.livejournal.com]

I'd prefer a single payment over driblets weekly, but not necessarily only at the beginning - I donated to both Fledgling and Saltation, but I couldn't have right at the start, so was very grateful others had taken up the initial challenge.

Please not PDF. an e-book is great for me, as good or better than hard copy, but pdf and my e-reader don't play at all well togother. HTML, txt, mobipocket, but not pdf.

[paulcory.livejournal.com]

To add a little more detail.

I'd want a free taste, before I was required to pay. Two to three chapters should do it.

I want to decide to pay once and be done with it. This is an important distinction - you could charge my card for each unit/episode/chapter individually, but I only want to the make the purchasing decision once.

I'll pay more if I get a physical copy of the book at the end, but not for an electronic copy.

Update timeliness is absolutely vital to me if I'm paying for the content. If the content is free, I'm much more tolerant of missed deadlines.

[rose-07.livejournal.com]

I 'donated' to both Fledgling and Saltation in one go - I don't have a paypal account and it ended up costing me almost $100 - Australian - which is well and above what I would have paid for the books if I had bought them here... but you did promise to sign them and I can't get that over here. I didn't donate until after Saltation started as it was more cost effective for me to do two than one (but I felt really dreadful about reading Fledgling without donating).

I have only read the above books via web serialisation. It became one of the highlights of my week to read the chapter and then to go to 'book club' and read/listen to the discussion and add my 2 cents worth - or not. (I actually often pictured you rofl about some of our speculations). The great thing about reading the first draft is that when the paper copy finally gets here it will be a whole new book.

I would definitely read anything from the Liaden universe (the next one after I Dare would be a great start for me :o)). I would like to have the option of 5 or 6 sample chapters from an author I was not familiar with before buying (I like this word better - though the difference between buying and donating necessitates a much more sophisticated password protected site.) And I would pay less if I was not going to get a hard copy of some sort on completion. If it was only going to be available online or electronically then I would expect to be reading the final version not a first draft and so would not expect 'life' to interfere.

[chaddai.livejournal.com]

Web serialization is very addictive for me... I read a lot of free serialization or complete books on the net and ended up buying the books (I'm an avid reader in all formats : electronic, paperback, hardcover...). I discovered your work recently with Fledgling and was interested enough that I now possess a complete collection of your Liaden universe books and as much of the short stories that I could find (and the Fey books).

30$ is probably my limit for donation, probably in one shot (I just don't like paying/donating several times for the same thing). Note that this amount depends more of my appreciation of the writer than on any eventual reward. If there is a book in the end, the ideal would be both electronic and paper version (I read one or the other depending on situation) and anything but PDF for the ebook.

The work I would most enjoy seeing serialized right now would probably be Mouse and Dragon but failing that (I guess your contract would have to include this beforehand) anything by you would be welcome ! :-)

--
Jedaï

[chaddai.livejournal.com]

The work I would most enjoy seeing serialized right now would probably be Mouse and Dragon but failing that (I guess your contract would have to include this beforehand) anything by you would be welcome ! :-)

The sequel to I Dare and/or Saltation would be very nice too !

About the updates schedule, I don't mind a somewhat irregular schedule as long as it stay within limits. Also the updates shouldn't be too short, the size of Fledgling chapters was a nice compromise.

--
Jedaï

[deor.livejournal.com]

I'd prefer an HTML file to a pdf, actually.

And I chose pay-as-you-go mostly because I've been burned by pre-paying for an entire book by *mumble* which hasn't materialized after well over a year. I don't mind somewhat irregular updates, but there must actually _be_ updates.

With authors who have a track record of doing regular updates, I might be more willing to pre-pay for the whole thing.

[mbarker.livejournal.com]

5: What about RTF or other formats? I read on my pda, which is happiest with RTF.

6 and 7: Regarding what to put in the pot -- $25 or $30 at a shot isn't too hard, $50 or so is a bit of a strain and might be best done through a series of donations?

8: Prefer fairly regular schedule, but occasional blips and slips are part of life.

Preferred book: Probably Chi or dealer's choice first (I trust your intuition), and White Sheep last (largely because I think a mystery almost needs to be pre-written, or at least heavily plotted, to come out well, and I'd prefer to start reading a serialization soon!)

Does this mean cerealuniverse is going to start getting milk added soon? Yeah! Snap, crackle, and pop!

[paw3pals.livejournal.com]

The continuation of the story after I Dare is what I Greedily Anticipate the most, but anything in the Liaden Universe is Always Read.

Though it seems that the I Dare continuation is not on the immediate radar for you yet (ref: Mouse and Dragon is next, and your question re: Chi's story). I just hope it does not take as long as Plan B did, to happen (my original copies of the first 3 books are worn to pieces after so many years of re-reading).

[rolanni.livejournal.com]

Though it seems that the I Dare continuation is not on the immediate radar for you yet (ref: Mouse and Dragon is next, and your question re: Chi's story).

We get to pitch books to print publishers while we're serializing, remember. So a Chi book done on the web (for instance) doesn't automatically preclude any other book.

On Web Serialization

[cschanck.livejournal.com]

I have to concur with what others have said -- my familiarity with and love of the Liaden Universe was a major factor in paying and reading Theo. Your proven track record on reasonably timely output during the serialization is a big plus.

As to what I would pay, well, I *think* I donated a chapters worth for each book, but that was because they books coincided with personal windfalls.

I would foresee it being hard for an unknown author to go from zirch to lightspeed through web efforts -- it is a little harder to read a serialized novel. That may not, however, be true of the younger set. I can see being receptive to read efforts from unknown authors recommended by favorites (how I wish Janet Kagan could do so, for example. Sniff.)

But yes, established storylines are more attractive. I also think short stories (in a known universe like yours) would do well.

Re: On Web Serialization

[rolanni.livejournal.com]

I would foresee it being hard for an unknown author to go from zirch to lightspeed through web efforts

Oh, absolutely. I think successful web serialization depends upon an author having an established reader base.

[jmr-udhgal.livejournal.com]

I would prefer a downloadable format over hardcopy (mobi or rtf over pdf) but will take hardcopy if that's all I can get.
I'll pay more or less depending on how well I like the story and current cash flow situations.
Regular updates are important to me mainly because otherwise I often forget to check back and then can't remember where I left off.

[hapaxnym.livejournal.com]

What I would *really* pay for is the sequel to TOMORROW LOG. But I would cheerfully shell out for anything Liaden

[disassembly_rsn]

Second the motion RE Web of the Trident (if I recall the working title correctly).

[groblek.livejournal.com]

I'm a bit of an odd one, in that I'll donate to an ongoing serialization, but won't actually read it until it's finished. I found that the waiting drove me nuts, so while I've donated to both Fledgling and Saltation, I haven't read either one, and won't until they come out as books. As for what format I'd prefer if there's a copy given in return for donating, it's a toss-up whether I'd prefer electronic or physical format. Though for electronic format, PDF makes me shudder - they won't work on my PDA well, and are a pain on the computer. I'd happily buy an electronic copy from webscriptions though, and get a physical copy for a donation.

[trolleypup.livejournal.com]

max donate for no reward: depends on the authors...for the authors I would be interested in, something upwards of $50

So I'm a little strange

[bookmobiler.livejournal.com]

I contributed to both Fledgling an Saltation and would cheerfully do it again.
That being said I didn't read either until they were done because serials frustrate me.
I also only occasionally followed the chapter by chapter discussion.

[berneynator.livejournal.com]

Donate implies freely given to me, but if I were to get some sort of finished copy I definitely prefer hard copy, it's much easier on the eyes than a computer screen. How much I would pay really depends on my experience of the author- if it's someone I would buy the books of in a bookstore, I'm willing to pay at least that much for the same work, published or not.

That said, whether I'd be willing to pay definitely depends on my perception of the reliability of updates- I know real life happens, but if I'm paying for a book I do expect a certain regularity of update or at least explanations. Flexibility is okay, unfinished is not. With a new-to-me author I'd prefer to know that most or all of the book is written before they start posting. A familiar favorite I might be more willing to just trust.

Anything Liaden gets my vote, I don't need to know anything more. I have not yet had the chance to read the Jen Pierce novels, but I hope to resolve that shortly; but I'm really panting over the next book after I Dare.

[cailleuch.livejournal.com]

I used the space to say "cannot make up my mind" because there wasn't enough room to explain. I really like the Jen mysteries and would like to read more. I also would read anything Liaden. I echo others in saying that you would probably make more money on anything Liaden. Whatever you write I will buy and more than likely buy for whomever I can get addicted. So write what you would like!

[muehe.livejournal.com]

I like reading serialization.
I like a schedule, gives me something to look forward to. The occasional delay is ok. But a loose schedule is bad. Kind of like when they start moving your favorite TV show around. You start missing them and pretty soon you do not even realize you are missing them because you lost interest. The forum helps to keep the interest up.

I like books and I like the ability to reread the story. A real pain when you move, but still I like them and I am willing to pay a bit more to get them. Any format – even a chapbook will do.

I have only partipated in 2 -- both about Theo.

[jack_calls_dances]

I really liked the way you did Fledgling and Saltation -- chapters will be posted weekly or after we get $XXX, whichever comes last. I appreciated knowing when chapters would be posted and that you very very rarely missed an update when you hadn't announced ahead of time that there wouldn't be an update. That way of doing it provided "sample chapters" as long as some folks were donating and allowed me the option of donating a couple of smaller donations or just doing it all at once.

I would really appreciate it if the website was formatted so that it reads better on portable devices, or maybe an RSS feed that just has the text and no menu bar.

[rolanni.livejournal.com]

I would really appreciate it if the website was formatted so that it reads better on portable devices, or maybe an RSS feed that just has the text and no menu bar.

Ah, you remind me of the other reason I'm reluctant to do another web serialization. (The first being the record-keeping, which takes up far, far more time than the actual writing.)

We have apparently slipped so far behind the curve on web stuff that we'd have to take a year off of doing anything else to catch up. I can do basic html, which is why the Fledgling and Saltation pages look like they do.

Now, as far as I know (which isn't very), there is/was an RSS feed available for both Theo books, but formatting the feed for portable devices is right out of my range. It sounds like we'd have to do two pages -- one in html and one in...something else. Having to take the manuscript file and html it by hand was a pain, but doable; having to recode twice just sounds like 'way too much work.

[nephir.livejournal.com]

re: questions 4 & 5;
I love hard backs, but have somewhere in the neighborhood of over 10000 books sitting in my garage waiting for shelves to be built (my summer project). So hard backs, love them, paperbacks and trade paperbacks take up less room.... its kinda hit or miss for it all. If I have hard backs, I like to have all the author's works in hard back.
Pricing for a web book -- I actually work within the publishing business (mainly academic and training) so I have a fairly good idea of cogs for our versions run. I think the price of a hard back fiction title (minus the retail markup) is a decent cost to ask.

[(Anonymous)]

I ticked both "Yes, but only for a favorite author and/or a story I really wanted to read" and "No -- loathe serialized novels" for the first question.

Mostly No because I do not like the idea of paying a monthly subscription for a novel i.e. a fee per chapter. I always start to add up the overall cost and think that a paperback would have been cheaper.

Yes because I sent you a one-off donation for both Fledgling and Saltation. I also have subscribed to one seralised site which charges half the "normal" monthly fee, is publishing two stories bimonthly by an author I like and where both of the stories were 80% complete before they were put up. She also has a lot of stuff free so I know I'll like what she is charging for.

There is another author online who is publishing a couple of stories on her website and one via serialisation. I want to read it (but nothing else on the site) however I'll want until she has finished (in a couple of years) pay for one month and read the whole thing then. Which is a pity because she'll miss out on receiving the decent one-off payment for her story, I would otherwise be willing to pay.

Tricia

[rolanni.livejournal.com]

I also have subscribed to one seralised site which charges half the "normal" monthly fee,

There's a "normal" monthly fee? Who knew?

To be clear, what I was asking about particular reader's preferred method of supporting an author's work: Throw in five bucks (say) every time a chapter's posted or kick in a one time donation so they don't have to bother clicking a PayPal button again.

What we did in the past -- and what we'd undoubtedly do again -- was to leave it open-ended, and tie chapter publication to a cumulative cap (i.e. "we'll release the next chapter when we've collected $300 in donations for the current chapter"). That gave people three choices: (1)read for free (always taking the chance that the cap might not be met by others) (2) donate a little per chapter and not strain the budget (3) donate once and it's done.

[e-moon60.livejournal.com]

I don't like to read fiction on the computer screen (having to do it all day every day for my own stuff, my eyes need a rest.) Nor would I read it as a serial (it would drive me crazy--not only interfering with my writing, but also tempting Demon Editor out of her hutch and thus requiring application of Moral Force to keep from writing the authors and saying "That sentence in chapter three, paragraph two, really belongs in chapter four paragraph eight...fix that in the next draft..." and similar maddening, unforgiveable intrusions. There is not enough Moral Force in my aging brain to manage this, and if I like the writers I want to stay friends with them.)

Thus I would contribute to such a project only if there were a paper (or printable) version and would want to make only one contribution.

Here it gets tricky. For a writer whose work I kindasorta like, but I really like the writer and want to support her/him, I might be OK with a PDF I could print, and my contribution would factor in the cost of the paper to print it. So that contribution would be less than if the book came already printed out. For a writer whose work I really like and want to keep around, it would have to promise the printed version...not a hardcover, but either a mass-market (for those I probably won't read more than a half dozen times) or trade PB (for those I know I'll read more than a half-dozen times.) Again, my contribution would be based on the estimated bookstore price of an equivalent...I know what prices are, and what the markup over expenses is, and would be prepared to gift the writer what bookstores usually yank, in addition to the royalty built in.

If I could stand to read a book off the screen, I'd want to pay less for just the download so I could read it whenever.

But that's just me, and I need to get back to work now.

[keristor.livejournal.com]

Hmm, some missing answers, and some I answered twice or more.

Contributions: if I have the money I'll do it all "up-front". It gives you the money to eat (and feed the cats) now, and gets it off my back so I don't forget. It possibly also results in less money getting eaten by the transfer system. If I don't have the money right now then monthly or whatever would also work.

Receiving a 'pay-off' -- I contribute so that y'all can continue to write, that is the main 'pay-off' to me. Getting a 'free' book at the end is nice but IMO is not the point, I would be quite happy to actually buy the finished product (as well as having read the draft as it was being written).

As a web seralisation, I tried to say that since I haven't read any of the other Jen Pierce stories yet I would want to read those first, which is why I voted for a Chi yos'Phelium story in preference. But the space available wasn't big enough to say that...

[muirecan.livejournal.com]

I actually might enjoy the Maine Mystery but first I need to read the first couple of them. Then I would probably champ at the bit to get the rest.

As for amount I actually paid $50 on each fledgling and Saltation, but I had money at the time. Depending on what I had I might not be able to be so generous. I also try to donate to the various web comics that I enjoy but can't afford to do it regularly.

As for receiving something I enjoy it but donating to something like this at least until now has been something nice that I enjoy doing. And if the book gets printed then I would love to buy it.

Will buy whatever you write in whatever format, myself...

[(Anonymous)]

But PLEASE, no PDF!!!! PDF is great if you're going to print it out on a printer that matches the original - but it REALLY is bad for almost every other purpose.

I've bought the Liad pieces in the old DRM'ed Palm format (may it rest in pieces), and now from Baen. I'm on the second hard copy of some of the books, have all the chap books to date (I think), and the collections.

I'm in a good position financially, and can afford to do the subscriptions in one pass most months - but a monthly/chapter signup would probably make it easier, especially if some of my other favorite authors and artists catch on to the process.

As for which... your pick. There's a lot of stories still to tell - may you be writing for a lot more years to tell them all!

[alicebentley]

Elaboration:

I found my answer ranging wildly depending on whether I was answering for my Younger self (read voraciously, had fairly ready spending money), my Bookseller self (would read for pleasure only the most favorite of authors, could justify truly remarkable expenditures in the service of promoting books) or my At-The-Moment self (in grad school, unemployed husband - no time, no money).

I decided to choose my answers based on what I hope to be my Future self - working at a demanding and rewarding job, both me and my husband working, but also paying for our son's college fees.

For Question 5, I could not decide between Hardcover - the format most likely to survive multiple readings, or Tradepaper - the format I have less trouble holding. In truth, I would want the paper copy mostly so that I could pass it along to someone else.

Regarding updates, it's not that important to me when they occur, but very important that they occur when I was told they would.

[(Anonymous)]

Alice, Its good to hear from you. I remember you as the cutest, nicest bookseller in the Windycon dealers room. I bought two hardcovers of Bujold's _Cordelia's Honor_ from you many years ago. Best wishes for your grad school studies. I'm sure you will do well.

Sharon,
I made the requested donations for _Fledgling_ and _Saltation_ and would do it again. I'll
probably buy the finished e-books from Baen altho I may not be around to see the hard copy of _Saltation_, depending on the success of my chemo. I like the serial drafts but would pay just as much for an e-book as for a paperback.
I like the Liaden books but would also go for
_Web of the Trident_ or the second half of the book about the little guy who family could create Teleportation portals (sorry, can't remember the title). I have the book somewhere - you sort of left us hanging in the middle of the story!
SF/F please, I couldn't get into your stories about elves. If you just own the electronic rights to some of your stories, maybe Webscriptions would put them up even if Baen can't publish them yet. You might also put one of your shorter stories in their free
library as a loss-leader to get new readers interested in your work.
Good Luck,
Art Parham(ARParhamATaol.com)

What goes around... answers

[(Anonymous)]

Not LJ member, so: read serialized? Only favorite author or story I really wanted to read. Generally speaking, I prefer reading in one go rather than a serial; Fledging/Saltation was a major exception!
Donate? If it was a favorite author, sure. Prefer to make one donation (as I did with the Theo books & Diane Duane's Big Meow).
Prefer to receive something? Nice, but not vital; though I think it's appropriate when the story is done to at least repackage it in a compact all-at-once form (epub, non-DRM Mobi, zip of HTML, whatever). Nice to get a paper book, but not a requirement; whatever the author is able to do, though of course HC is best.
Re donation, if I'm supporting the author, then it depends on my budget and how desperately I want the story; for the Theo stories I was willing to pay quite a bit! But that's uncommon. I would consider $5-$10 to be a fair price for something picked up blind.
For a serialization, regularity is important; even more so if regularity is promised (then you end up going to the site regularly, disappointed if not there...)
Would like to read more of anything Liaden!
Note: PDF bad! Need format I can read on any reader. DRM double-bad! Need format that can be transformed easily, again because I use a variety of readers, and will have different ones in the future.
--John N.