Where do I resign my baptism?

[rolanni]

OK, this is disturbing. Not the part about people renouncing the faith they were born into -- that, I understand. No, my problem is right here: According to Argentine campaigner Ariel Bellino, a former Catholic: "The church counts all those who've been baptized as Catholic and lobbies for legislation based on that number....

I realize that I don't live in Argentina or the UK, but, yanno, I betcha the church is still counting me among the US faithful -- and I don't want to be on that list. Not only do I so not agree with almost everything the roman catholic church has to say about almost any topic relating to Life As I Know It To Be, I am by its own rules no longer a catholic. I have been excommunicated, like, a thousand times over:

Missed my Easter Duty? for years and years and YEARS

Married a divorced man, thereby living in "sin" for the past thirty years? oh, yeah

Used tarot cards and other tools of the Art Magical? ayuh

Embraced a Bohemian and artistic lifestyle? ...on second thought, that may not be on the Official List.

I had always believed that I had been struck from the church's census, since I don't show up in any parish documents, and I resent four thousand ways from tomorrow the fact that I'm (probably) still being counted as a roman catholic solely and only for the ADVERTISING VALUE, because my parents decided to have me baptized. I mean, it's fine that Mom and Dad were trying to look out for my eternal soul and all -- I'm not angry at them; they did what they thought was right. I just think that my adult decision to repudiate that baptism ought to count, here.

So, anyway -- does anyone know where I Officially Resign my baptism?

Comments

and answer... a ramble... and then back on target

[katmoonshaker.livejournal.com]

I would try checking with the local diocese office. They should know. I didn't have to worry about it. The Church of Christ doesn't do that sfaik. Of course, now I'm a confirmed Episcopalian but I made that choice after marrying my current husband.

My first husband wouldn't let me do anything (he was 9 years older than me & I left when he burst my eardrum). My second one had Ullr come down out of a starry sky and say "You're mine." Ergo I ended up becoming a Priestess in a Celtic tradition (wither thou goest I shall go...). I was married to him for 15 years and we have two children but I finally managed after 13 years of chaos and emotional abuse to leave him. He is 6 years younger than I am so I was accused of cradle robbing (he was 21 when we married).

My third husband was divorced when we married and had a daughter (now 21, we've been married 2 years). He is Episcopalian. He wasn't practicing when we hooked up but I realized that it was hurting him not to be spiritually connected. As much as it has always hurt me.

However, since I was 11 and baptized I have believed everything was true. I am a Omniquantist. If God is omnipotent and all things are possible, then it is possible that all religions are correct simultaneously. After all, He made us all unique. Why not make unique paths to bring us to him? It made sense to me then and has to this day.

At any rate, if the Diocese says you're still on the rolls, tell them to take you off or you'll do something really embarrassing on National TV... or... something.

[klingonguy.livejournal.com]

This reminds me very much of the Mormon church (and/or members of the Mormon church) posthumously baptizing Jews who were victims of the Nazis.

[mardott.livejournal.com]

I researched this for one of my books and found a great web page with instructions for doing this. Unfortunately, I'm not at home and I'm having trouble finding that page on this computer (I think my computer knows I'm serious when I search for things like atheism, paganism, or excommunication. Public computers don't believe you're serious).

Anyway, it can be done, but they don't make it easy, and I don't remember all the details. But in general, there are a few things you need to do.

You have to officially be excommunicated by the church. To do this:

1. Find the church you were baptized in. You have to communicate with them.

2. Research the reasons you can be excommunicated. There aren't as many as you might think - I was really surprised to find out that practicing witchcraft won't do it. They can burn you at the stake, but they won't excommunicate you.

Unbelief won't work either. You have to do things like kill the pope (not recommended), desecrate the host, (not sure how), etc.

But wait! I just foud the website:

http://www.atheistfoundation.org.au/excommunication.htm

So I'll stop blathering and tell you to look there. Good luck...

[rolanni.livejournal.com]

Thank you!

[badgermirlacca.livejournal.com]

This is very interesting, but the suggested letter is for atheists. I'm no longer Catholic, but I'm not sure I'm an atheist either.

Must think about how I can adapt that letter.

[rolanni.livejournal.com]

This is very interesting, but the suggested letter is for atheists.

Actually, if you follow the "success story" link, you'll get a letter written by a person in New York, which may be more useful. Chapter and verse cites will have to be checked, of course, but you're a librarian. you have cite-checking foo.

[badgermirlacca.livejournal.com]

Aha! Thank you!

Since membership in organizations apparently counts, perhaps we could form a League of the Formerly Catholic (But Sane Now) and use that as evidence.

[ligeia-bm.livejournal.com]

Well, I'm Argentine, and Muslim, though I was born Roman Catholic. The official word is that while you'll be added officially as an apostate (if you sign in the many campaigns for apostasy out there, or do all the painfully bureaucratic paperwork required), but that you will never rescind the baptism. It's said that even if you deny your Christianity, the baptismal water cannot be erased. That has been the argument raised by Catholics, saying that therefore renouncing Catholicism is useless. Even belonging to another religion for more than twenty years now, having married officially as a Muslim, etc, I'm counted by the Church as a catholic. A deviated, living in sin one, but catholic one anyway. And why is this so? because the Church here is officially supported by the State, and it's one of the biggest lobby groups politically speaking, and that's because they claim the 98% of the population is Roman catholic. Which is untrue, of course. Especially since the big boom of the Evangelist proselytism here, and the huge numbers of RC who left the Church after the revelations of its role in the last bloody military dictatorship in the 70's and the more recent scandals related to pedophilia and sexual harassment and/or discrimination. However, due to the baptismal records, they can keep the claim, and keep the huge economical support from the State. Their bishops are even considered with the rank of secretaries of State, receiving a salary accordingly. And a pension, when they "retire" at 75. Actually, all church members receive a pension, paid by the State upon retirement age. None of the priests/representatives of other recognized faiths in Argentina receive the same treatment. So, in brief, being a Muslim, my taxpayer money goes to pay Catholic bishops and priests' salaries and pensions. Which is outrageous, since I cannot use hospitals or public schools because of the lack of funds to provide them with the most basic necessities. Interesting enough, I cannot use catholic schools either, because they will not accept a Muslim child, of course, despite the huge funds they receive from the Argentine State (from taxpayers' money)to sustain catholic private education. Again, my taxpayer money goes down the drain in things I'm excluded to use. Lately, this is being contested, like for example with the huge apostasy campaign. But they have still a lot of power, politically and economically speaking. They are resisting by all means these campaigns, and the latest one (the apostasy one) has already claimed victims, with many people being fired from their jobs, if these were in any way related to the Catholic Church (in Education, for example). There is a case being discussed these days that could be considered as testing grounds for this kind of tactic. An University Professor (the only specialist in Persian Culture of the country, who taught in the El Salvador University)was fired because she publicly adhered to the apostasy campaign, though she never spoke about it in the University. This case has been brought to the Courts, which will have to decide if this is a case of discrimination or not. Funny thing is, they will take months (or years) to add the note of your apostasy beside your baptismal records, but they didn't take the same time to do a cross reference between those signing the apostasy letters to the Church's authorities, and the lists of those employed by the Church. So, they are using blackmail to prevent people "quitting" the Catholic faith. If they send apostasy letters, and their jobs are related to anything Catholic, they can expect to be fired. Or live in dread of being fired.

[ligeia-bm.livejournal.com]

BTW, El Salvador University is a Catholic University in Argentina, and its name it's not related to the Latin American country, but to Jesus himself. El Salvador = The Saviour.

[taphien.livejournal.com]

In Germany you do it via tax form, as the church tax gets automatically deducted from your income same as income tax :)

[rolanni.livejournal.com]

There's a Church Tax? I didn't know Germany had a state-supported church.

[taphien.livejournal.com]

Well, the state collects the tax for the churches ... at least for the two major ones roman catholic and lutheran - I'm not sure about others. You get asked for your religion the first time you apply for a tax card and if you want to change it later you have to pay a fee (unless you are a student).

It's kind of weird. Although we don't have a legal seperation of religion and state, people tend to be less religious or at least less obvious about their religion than people in N-America. On the other hand we still have religiously influenced laws like shops usually have to be closed on Sundays and holidays, and no dancing or loud music on certain christian holidays.

[mardott.livejournal.com]

But... if you're an atheist in Germany, do you have to pay the church tax? What if you're Baptist? Do you have to pick Lutheran or Catholic?

Or am I over-reacting, and this is really a voluntary tax you pay by checking one of those boxes?

[taphien.livejournal.com]

It's voluntary. When I applied for my first tax card there was only Catholic, Lutheran and other/none as choice, because there are barely any other religions common in Germany.
Nowadays it's about 30% Catholic, Lutheran, Atheist/Agnostic each plus 5% Muslim and 5% other religions.

[adina-atl.livejournal.com]

If it's any consolation, the US tends to look more at census data rather than the Catholic church's opinions on such things. But I feel your aggravation, since I too was baptized Catholic as a baby.

Officially Resigning

[bigbananaslug.livejournal.com]

Well, I know how to change from Roman to Methodist Catholic, because I did that. But to Officially Resign from the Roman church you have to get them to excommunicate you--the bell, book and candle stuff. I suggest videotaping yourself taking part in a Wiccan ritual or something...and mailing it to the local archdiocese with a request to be excommunicated. I'm sure they'll oblige.

Walt

Re: Officially Resigning

[rolanni.livejournal.com]

Actually, being a Witch is not, as noted above, reason for excommunication. There are penalties, but you have to be in the care snare of Papa Church for them to have any moral standing. So Papa doesn't throw you out for practicing witchcraft, he simply, and of course regretfully, punishes you.

Thanks Mum & Dad

[pakwa26.livejournal.com]

I am forever grateful to my parents who had to foresight to not enrol me in any of the organised religions on offer at the time. Personally, I like the notions of the folks over at Secular Humanism, and it makes other people more comfortable than saying "unbeliever"... isn't religion wonderful?