Today's tempest in a teapot

[rolanni]

Frequent readers of this blog will recall that yesterday, I posted a snippet from work-in-progress Carousel Seas; then deleted it when a complaint about the ungrammaticalness of the snippet was the first response to it.

Now, posting snippets is something I do because I want to; it's fun in much the same way as eating cookies fresh out of the oven is fun.  Neither is meant to be nutritious, necessarily; just a little hit of pleasure to sweeten the day.

Snippets usually come directly out of the work I've done on the day of their posting; they are first draft material.  That means they may contain spelling errors, punctuation errors, errors in arithmetic, grammar errors, and all the other sorts of Soul-Destroying Horrors that attend first draft material.

The cry of "not grammatically correct" struck me exactly the same way as you would have been struck, had I walked into your kitchen and slapped the plate of warm cookies out of your hand.

Exactly that.

I mean, if I don't want a warm cookie, all I have to say is, "No, thanks."  Right?  No need to be rude about it.

If a snippet offends you, then don't read any more snippets.  That's easy, right?  I put them at the very bottom of the page for a reason, you know*.

I want to make it clear that I don't think my work is perfect; and I certainly don't think the snippets are perfect.  Some things I post as snippets don't survive the final draft.  I am, at least a little bit, aware of the demands of my craft.  I do multiple read-throughs of my working manuscript, correcting, changing and shaping.

I also want to make clear that I do not reverence grammar above all things.  Grammar is a tool.  It is not the only tool.  Which is why my initial, but usually suppressed, response to those who need to explain to me that my grammar sucks is, "So. Fucking. What?"

For the folks who are asking that the snippet be re-instated, and that snippeting continue. . .give me a few days to think about this.  I don't like having cookies slapped out of my hands; it's upsetting.  This doesn't mean that I need -- or want -- tons of praise for my powers as a baker; I mean, for ghod's sake, they're just cookies.  I just don't want to be abused for having baked them.

-----------

*The Reason Being that I was taken to task (a couple years ago now) on Baen's Bar for snipetting.  The objection there being to one's unrelenting self-promotion.  That kerfuffle cost me three days' work and a migraine, so you can see why I hide the snippets now, and also why I want to be very careful of my space on this.  If I can't feel reasonably safe, and get some pleasure from the act of snipetting, then it's clear, in order to protect my work, that I shouldn't snippet.

Comments

[mizkit.livejournal.com]

Oh, no. Waugh. I love the snippets (even if I rarely comment on them) and I *completely* understand the feeling of having had the cookies slapped from your hand. Waugh. And it's hard to accept that someone probably meant well, when the cookies are scattered all over the floor.

...I feel that I, like Angel and Buffy, should probably stop with the cookie metaphor now. :)

[rolanni.livejournal.com]

I tried to think that they had meant well, but. . .when I'm helping someone with a passage that doesn't quite jell, I try to pinpoint exactly what isn't working. Just saying, "This passage doesn't work for me," is a start, and isn't necessarily malicious, but it's not helpful, either.

I'm glad you like the snippets.

[reedrover]

Thank you for this post.

And a heartfelt sigh.

I adore grammar, and grammar-nit-picking. But I also adore author-created joy and sharing of thoughts as they spring forth the first time, as in these snippets. There is a time for personal idiom and appreciation, and a time for thoughtful discussion of editing remarks. Sigh.

[rolanni.livejournal.com]

There is a time for personal idiom and appreciation, and a time for thoughtful discussion of editing remarks.

Yes, exactly.

[jessie-c.livejournal.com]

The snippets are for me a welcome peak into your creative process. I'll miss them if you decide not to continue. As for grammar, it's a guideline, not rules cast in stone. There are many times when a writer breaks the rules for effect, or because their character is inherently ungrammatical. How are we beta-readers to determine from a snippet whether you're being ungrammatical by mistake or by intent? It's not our place to decree whether what you've posted is grammatical or not without context.

Virtual e-hugs from all the way over here on the Left Coast. I recommend a healthy dose of cat therapy and a nice cup of tea. Then re-read the critics scene from the ending of Number of the Beast.

[otterb.livejournal.com]

I enjoy the snippets and would miss them. I don't normally comment on them. I think I view them a little like a purring cat; it's an indicator that things are well in this small corner of the universe.

[blythe025.livejournal.com]

Sorry to hear you got your cookies slapped out of your hand. I hate to hear that kind of thing. :(
I certainly don't expect snippets to be perfect. If I want perfection, or the resemblance thereof, I read the final published book.

[spiritdancer]

When I'm reading first draft (or second or third), I don't tend to comment unless I am specifically asked for such. I figure if you want someone to go after your writing with a metaphorical machete, you'll ask for it - and will be braced to take that feedback. Snippets are to be enjoyed as they show up, to peak the reader's interest in the upcoming story, and perhaps give some insight as to how the author creates their world.

I gave up on the Baen snippets long ago (I think it was an episode of "all the punctuation, but no words" one that got me). If I'm really, really intrigued, I might get the eARC, but that's pretty rare theses days.

Anyhow, if you are comfortable, I love seeing the snippets. If you aren't comfortable with random nasty comments on, I'd much rather you actually be able to, you know, actually get the book written, and don't worry about posting snippets. I'll miss them, but I can be patient :-)

Progress reports even without snippets are still good!

[kk1raven.livejournal.com]

Some people are obnoxious. I'm sorry that one of them did that too you. There is a time and a place for grammar complaints and your snippets are neither the time nor the place. I like them so I hope you'll continue with them when you're ready to do so.

[gilraen2.livejournal.com]

I hearby promise never to snipe at your snippets - although I may well snap them up and savor them.

[muirecan.livejournal.com]

Sorry that a fellow reader was that uncool and slapped the snippet out of your hand. :p Get some good cat therapy and the beverage of your choice and relax.

Snippets

[gareth griffiths (from livejournal.com)]

Oh my goodness - snippets are just snippets - could be that character to be in character used his own grammar. Snippets are greatly appreciated and do NOT have to be in good grammar. They're fun. They light up some days. If they cause you pain, stop, but hopefully remember the joy they cause lots of others and hopefully that will make you feel marginally less distressed.

Hot cookies

[gareth griffiths (from livejournal.com)]

Usual reaction to hot cookies is 'these are terrible, I'll just have to take them away to spare anyone else the pain of eating them..'. never works but sometimes it raises a smile. Warm cookies are WONDERFUL just a fresh snippets are - well fresh and newly backed - waiting to see how they turn out. Maybe they will make the recipe book, or maybe not but they are still warm and fresh and only time will tell. Like new babies, snippets need nurturing before you really see how they turn out.

[msagara.livejournal.com]

I really hope you can put aside the sting the response caused and continue to post your snippets, because I think there are clearly more readers who actually enjoy them.

But my alpha readers don’t comment on grammar issues at all. Or even typos; that’s not what I need before I start my revision passes. I think they assume those issues are someone else’s problem. (i.e. mine & the various editors along the road to publication).

I think sometimes readers kind of assume that the finished book *is* the book we’re writing; that we have the story and the plot and the characters and the act of writing itself is just ... secretaries taking dictation. There are certainly authors who have coronaries when they see mistakes in a finished book.

I don’t post snippets for different reasons, the biggest of which is: some people hate spoilers. I’ve been taken to task in the past for discussing future works, in part because I sometimes forget which parts of a long, long story are actually *on* the page, and which parts haven’t made it there yet.

And in part also because some of my favorite lines in a day’s work would take a couple of months worth of writing’s context, and, well. Spoilers.

[rolanni.livejournal.com]

I sometimes forget which parts of a long, long story are actually *on* the page, and which parts haven’t made it there yet.

I'm having that trouble with this book, because, though the previous book has been turned in, it hasn't been published, so, in essence, I need to not spoil two books.

But, I tend to think that a small snippet -- a sentence or three at most -- out of context, will be confusing enough so that it's not a spoiler.

I think sometimes readers kind of assume that the finished book *is* the book we’re writing; that we have the story and the plot and the characters and the act of writing itself is just ... secretaries taking dictation.

No, this is true; I forget that to many people the whole writing thing is a mystery. "Did you have that planned out from the beginning?" is a pretty frequent question. (And the pretty frequent answer is, "No; I just looked back at what's already been published, and this time I saw the hook.") Perfectly clear explanation that Makes No Sense to someone who doesn't work down among the commas...

[attilathepbnun.livejournal.com]

I like the snippets, myself, and regret that someone was mean to you *offers virtual hugs*

[mbarker.livejournal.com]

Heck, set up a subscription-only place for us to have a warm coo... er, get a look at the snippets. But I certainly understand your position. Can't quite say the same for the folks who seem to enjoy sniping at those who are doing good, but... Take care.

[caoilfhionn.livejournal.com]

"Grammar is a tool. It is not the _only_ tool."

Yes, yes, yes, THIS! Thank you for this excellent summary. I edit for a living, and people getting all dictatorial about grammar makes me itch. Nobody writes perfect rule-following English all the time, and very few writers should try. What horrid, artificial representations of life we'd be reading if the rules of language were law!

It is a wonderful thing to get a glimpse inside a writer's process. Not many authors are willing to do it, and fans are lucky to have the chance. _Fledgling_ was fascinating *to me* because I got to read different drafts. I know people who passed on the early version so that they could see only the final polished work, and lo, they too were happy for their choice. So thank you for giving those of us who geek on process the option. I'm sorry someone tried to make themselves feel powerful at your expense. That sucks.

warm cookies

[barbinbandon.livejournal.com]

It's so sad that *anybody* would slap warm cookies out of your hands, Sharon. Alas, there's always some mean spirited asshole in the audience.

The things that you share with us: the cats, the book covers, the writing progress, the snow shoveling, the errands, the myriad of little and big things including the snippets...they bring such joy.

I can't thank you enough for this little slice of sanity. It is a gem, whatever you decide to post.

Illigitimi non carborundum.

Best regards. Barb

[redpimpernel.livejournal.com]

That "grammar cop" is just a bully, and after the Marathon events yesterday, I'm getting tired of bullies. And ANGRY at bullies, and I wish I could metaphorically stomp the bully and say, just STOP it. (Would that make me a bully, too?) Why are people so hurtful?

If your own blog can't be a safe place to have fun and frolic and post word counts and whatever other bits that give you joy, than where is safe?

This blog is part of a shared space for your fans. We are a community. I sure hope we can say that behavior will not be tolerated in polite (or near-polite society.) They harm their own melanti.

I'm sorry your feelings were hurt, I'd like to offer a feelings Band-Aid. And I LOVED your response, "So. Fucking. What?"
Perfectly said!

[thewol.livejournal.com]

Personally, I like snippets. They're interesting and teasing, and give one a glimpse "under the hood" of the writing process. Sometimes my reaction to a snippet is "?" as in "Okay, I think I need a bit more information here," but it would never occur to me to cast asparagus on something that is out of context, in the first place, and in the second place is a little piece snipped out of a much larger ****work in progress***** Sheesh. Some people . . . .

Go take a nice hot bath with special soap, give everybody a munchie treat, have a glass of something nice, cuddle anything that will stand still for it, and feel better.

Oh, and I hope you deleted the offending comment, because you know we're going to go looking back through to find out what callous ingrate went and kicked the cat and there may be etorches and efarm implements brandished, angry epithets shouted, efeathers found, and some etar melted. . . oh, and somebody find an erail to ride this jerk out of town on. . .

No Cat in this Fight

[libertariansold.livejournal.com]

Didn't read the snippets--did not even know you had posted them and I check your blog every day. Guess the topic was something I skimmed over.
But if you post something on the Internet and do not expect to get negative comments about it--correct or not, justified or not, polite or not-- I conclude you have not spent much time on the Internet. Perhaps you would be happier by adopting a more difficult comments method, or preclude them altogether. I think hoping for 100% courtesy and good manners on (in?) the Internet is likely to lead to disappointment.
Regards.

Re: No Cat in this Fight

[scarlettina.livejournal.com]

So a friend says to you, "This thing happened and I feel bad about it," and your response, libertariansold, is to say, "Well, if you hadn't put your feelings out there, you wouldn't have gotten hurt," essentially blaming your friend for the rudeness of others. You may not have a cat in this fight, but clearly you don't have much compassion either. Or maybe you're invested in feeling superior or something. What was the point of this comment? (That's a rhetorical question; frankly, I don't care what you think the point was. You're calling your host naive, and that's just as rude as the person who instigated her post in the first place.)

[scarlettina.livejournal.com]

I'm sorry to hear that someone decided your fun was their opportunity to smack you. I know this feeling; it's happened to me online, too. I totally understand your taking some time to decide whether or not you want to continue posting snippets, but I hope you do continue. There will always be people on the internet who have to be right, who have to act as the corrective measure, or who don't understand the context of something that's been posted online. You can't let them get in your way. The best response to someone trying to ruin your fun is to continue having it. If you don't give them power, they won't have it. In the end, your party is the one we're all interested in attending anyway--they can go party somewhere else.

snippets

[rex rambo (from livejournal.com)]

I love the snippets. I hope that you can continue them. The creative process should not not be interrupted by nit-picking!

What is wrong with these people???

[capricchio.livejournal.com]

Sheesh. Who said everyone in life gets to tell others their opinions? You can have as many as you want (even about snippets) but as the Billy Joel song says "...you can speak your mind, but not on my time."
I like the snippets and always figured the grammar "variations" were the voice of the speaker. Hey! It's your character and people don't necessarily speak grammatically off the top of their head. As long as you get your point across (and I've never noticed you having any difficulty with that, even on the 'live' Fledgling Monday chapters) write as you please.
The other line from the same song is "..go ahead with your own life, leave me alone." They don't like your snippets, they can close the web page.
Scritch Mozart and Scrabble for me. Jeanne T