Let's talk Bildungsroman

[rolanni]

A Bildungsroman is a "coming of age" novel. Literature -- even genre literature -- is littered with the things; after all, Growing Up is one of the great themes of fiction, like: Man* Against Man, Man Against The Other, Man Against Academe, Man Against Himself, &c, &c. Examples of such works include, but are by no means limited to: The Catcher in the Rye, Oliver Twist, The Witches of Karres, Stranger in a Strange Land, To Kill a Mockingbird, The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn, Balance of Trade and Fledgling/Saltation.

With the theme being so prevalent, it's a little startling to find people who state flatly that they Never Read and/or Actively Dislike Coming of Age Novels. It's like those peculiar people who state that they abhor books told in the first person because first person is the sign that the writer has not mastered their craft -- i.e. it's easy to write in first person. Trust me, it's not.

Neither is it easy to write about young people and their growing up, especially if one wishes to maintain the basic dignity of the character and the integrity of the experiences that shape them into the adult they will become.

I read coming of age novels, just like I read novels that deal with Man Against The Other, or Man Against Himself (though I confess to a slight distaste for Man Can't Have Erection; happily there are few of those in the genres in which I typically read) -- I mean, they're stories, and stories need certain things to drive them: Theme, for one.

Maybe I'm in a minority, though. What do you guys think of Coming of Age novels? Love 'em? Loathe 'em? Kid's Stuff? Inquiring minds want to know!

-------
*Where "Man" stands in for "Human" -- I'm sorry; I got all this stuff back in the Bad Old Days when we could say things this way and not offend three-quarters of the internet. Which didn't exist. Which was probably a blessing.

Comments

[trolleypup.livejournal.com]

I rather like them when they are well written. The color by numbers type, not so much.

[jelazakazone.livejournal.com]

Like any sort of theme, if it's well done, I enjoy Coming of Age stories quite a bit. I think CoA stories can be a bit tricky because often the main character will have an awkwardness that can be offputting or uncomfortable. It seems a fine line for an author to tread to make that awkwardness feel natural and not embarrassing.

[herefox.livejournal.com]

I find it much, much harder to write in first person than third.

I like coming of age novels, though if a writer writes mostly that sort of thing I've noticed that it's far easier to fall into a rut where there's nothing NEW about them and they get repetitive. It seems to be a worse hazard than it is in some other themes.

[rolanni.livejournal.com]

I find it much, much harder to write in first person than third.

What you said. Having to make sure every single sentence is pitch-perfect? Not easy. Keeping track of which details the narrator can't know? Eek! And yet, yanno, some books demand it. What can you do?

a hypothesis

[(Anonymous)]

Maybe writing in the first person is so much harder to do because for most people the educational system that shaped them has spent literally _years_ pounding into our heads the concept that writing in the first person is a NO-NO?

I just finished three books and one short story by the same author. The short story and two of her books were exclusively or almost exclusively written in the 1st person, while the other book had multiple 1st person viewpoints, but mostly more conventionally handled. 3 of the works had elements of CoA and 2 of those also had alien-human cultural interaction/conflict as well. And off the top of my head, I can't think of very many who can do truly effective CoA in the 1st person of an alien being in an alien/human culture mix.

-Eta

[6-penny.livejournal.com]

I like most good stories, regardless of category. The exception is those involving time travel, against which I have a blind and unreasonable prejudice. (Or so I have been told)

[bobbie-monster.livejournal.com]

I was musing this morning on the drive to work; regarding the President's speech last night, that perhaps we as a nation should go back and watch/read some of the classic stories, many of which are CoA. They are a place where we may discover what we wish ourselves (our country) to be and not what "reality" has shown us we are. KEEP THEM, WRITE THEM, WRITE THEM WELL

[starushkaa.livejournal.com]

Love them if well-written (yours are definitely in that category. Badly written ones can be either primitive or non-believable or simply boring.

[liadan-m.livejournal.com]

Personally, I like Bildungsroman that reveal/build character like a flower. I have a strong preference for character-driven novels (see: regency romance) and while I won't pick up a book and buy it *because* it's a coming of age novel.

On Man v X., we had that phrasing in my creative writing classes not five years ago. I learned it first in 6th grade. It's still being used in teaching...

[rolanni.livejournal.com]

On Man v X., we had that phrasing in my creative writing classes not five years ago.

Really? I would've thought someone would have found a way to PC it by now. Not sure if I'm comforted or alarmed...

[liadan-m.livejournal.com]

My prof's opinion was that anyone in her class better have enough sense to understand that Man was the generic, general term, and in that most 'literature' that we were going to read it was the correct sex anyway. We could act like grownups and deal, or drop her class.

[ramblin-phyl.livejournal.com]

Harmony by C.F. Bentley may be my spiritual journey with a literary twist in a space opera landscape, but it is also a coming of age novel.

A character plodding along in an ordinary life thrust into new situations and growing to their full potential through adversity.

Doesn't have to be kids stuff. I didn't come of age until I was nearly 40

Coming of age

[(Anonymous)]

The question really shouldn't be don't like coming of age stories but rather don't like stories that are either a) poorly written or b) have a poor choice for plot. Personally I like a well written coming of age story but then I also like well written stories of other genres. I think the only thing standing in your way of enjoying a story is the preconceived notion of what such a story is.

Re: Coming of age

[rolanni.livejournal.com]

think the only thing standing in your way of enjoying a story is the preconceived notion of what such a story is.

Now, that's very true. I think that there may be a perception that "coming of age" = "teenager growing up." Which is just not necessarily so. As ramblin_phyl and mikebarker point out, we're all learning better, every day. OK -- every week. In a sense, we never do come of age.

[reedrover]

Yes, I enjoy "coming of age" novels, especially when they include something that allows the reader (me) to learn something about myself even at my non-teen-age. Louisa May Alcott, early Robert Heinlein (Starbeast), Gordon Korman, Robin McKinley, Tamora Pierce, Laura Ingalls Wilder...

Something that I find I enjoy and re-visit is when there is a stubborn or long-term challenge that does not require heroics, but rather perseverance and dedication. I find that loyalty to a cause means far more to me an adult than the brilliant battlefield heroics did to me as a teenager.

[agaj-d.livejournal.com]

I actually enjoy them very much. But I like when the theme of growing up per se is skillfully introduced and embedded in the 'bigger' picture. Growing up is important, but we keep growing throughout our life-continuously. It's never a complete process.I like when this fact is visible in the story.

[otterb.livejournal.com]

Some I like very much. To Kill a Mockingbird, for example, and Balance of Trade. Others I find unreadable, usually either because the hero/heroine is too rashly overconfident (this annoys me more than too whiny, though that is a fault as well) or because the obligatory Confrontation With the Bullies is telegraphed much too far in advance.

Everyone is entitled to one utterly irrational literary prejudice, so I won't quibble about the people who don't like coming-of-age books as long as nobody presses dark-and-sexy-vampire books on me promising that this one is different. I Just Don't Like Them.

[robotech-master.livejournal.com]

Not to be confused with Roman buildings…

Some of my favorite stories are Bildungsromans. My Side of the Mountain, for instance. Coming of age is such a universal experience that it strikes a chord in all of us.

[kalimeg.livejournal.com]

Orbital Resonance by John Barnes is not only wonderful, it's a coming-of-age story. I also liked Rite of Passage by Panshin which I read many years ago.

Podkayne isn't that good in this area. Fledgling/Saltation is good.

I guess I like most of the ones I've read -- even the Jupiter series books that crossed my path.

[able-spacer.livejournal.com]

Three words: I'm writing one.

And I'm enjoying it immensely!

Wifey and I both like to read them, and find that they're an extremely useful tool for drawing the reader into the world the characters inhabit, because the reader is discovering that world along with the character doing the coming of age.

[rolanni.livejournal.com]

they're an extremely useful tool for drawing the reader into the world the characters inhabit, because the reader is discovering that world along with the character doing the coming of age.

A naive character is often a blessing; they can help you get over a lot of world-and-society-building quickly and painlessly.

[mbarker.livejournal.com]

Just wondering -- Heinlein talked about three plots, I think? Boy meets girl (aka romance), the little tailor (aka adventure), and the man who learned better (come to realize -- aka bildunsroman?). Personally, I think most of the books that I prefer probably fall into that loose category. Oh, many of them may not be in the strict teenager transitioning to adult bucket, but in the generic learning to deal with the world realm -- that's what I prefer. Perhaps the antipathy is against the teenybopper learns a lesson versions, rather than the more general theme? As you point out, you'd have to discard an amazing amount of literature if you don't want to read anything along those lines. Heck, the fundamental notion of a character arc -- change in the protagonist -- seems to fit right into that theme?

[rolanni.livejournal.com]

Perhaps the antipathy is against the teenybopper learns a lesson versions, rather than the more general theme?

On reflection, I think that may be it. "I don't like stories with kid protagonists." Not the same as a "coming of age" novel, but you can see where the error crept in.

And, yes, almost any novel (except some literary ones that spring to mind) can be shoved into the boxed marked "coming-of-age" because, ideally in a novel, the character changes and grows, thus continuing (what one hopes will be) a life-long process.

[keristor.livejournal.com]

I translated 'Bildungsroman' as "picture book" (incorrectly, I know -- 'bild' is indeed 'picture' but 'Bildung' is 'culture' or 'education' -- but it was in interesting cognitive dissonance).

I have no trouble believing that some people dislike CoA novels, or ones written in first person, or in present tense, or in any number of different styles and genres. De gustibus nil disputandem est, after all. No doubt they are puzzled that I dislike some styles which they like.

The problem I tend to find with first-person narrative, unless it's done well (and it is certainly not an "easy option"), is that either it pushes me to identify with the narrator (which is a problem when the narrator and I are very different) or it tends to assume things which the narrator doesn't or couldn't know.

My personal take on CoA stories is that they are no better or worse than any other stories, it all stands or falls on the ability of the storyteller. There aren't all that many types of story anyway, and CoA is just one of the common elements and is generally mixed with others (quest, for instance). A story which was only CoA would probably be as boring as one which was only a quest, or only Man Can't Have Erection, or only Man Gets Laid, but all the ones you mention have a lot of other elements (indeed, I had never thought of 'Stranger' as a CoA story; I see that CoA is one of the elements but to me not the defining one).

And note that CoA isn't just about children and "kids' stuff". Mike in 'Stranger' is an adult; admittedly an unusual adult, but the themes of the book are certainly 'adult' in nature and not intended for children. I could argue that AoC+CD is a CoA story for Miri in many respects, similarly with Pat Rin's progression from playboy to responsible uber-boss, Aelliana in SP, and Priscilla in CoH (hmm, I wonder if I could make a case that all of your books are CoA in some sense? More research needed, I think, which means rereading them all -- oh, the hardship *g*).

[rolanni.livejournal.com]

The problem I tend to find with first-person narrative, unless it's done well (and it is certainly not an "easy option"), is that either it pushes me to identify with the narrator (which is a problem when the narrator and I are very different)

Now, that's a problem I've not had. For a first-person novel, I tend to read "I" as the name of the character -- that is, I never fully cross the wall and Merge Entirely with the character. So, the fact that "I" is someone different from "me" is a given.

Reading protocols -- we all have our favorites.

or it tends to assume things which the narrator doesn't or couldn't know.

That's a craft problem, and believe me, I sympathize with every author who has ever had trouble keeping what his "I" character can know, can't know, and must know straight in their head. Carousel Tides is a contemporary fantasy, and I kept reminding myself that cell phones are ubiquitous in most people's lives, even though I hate the things. If at some point in the future, you read Carousel Tides, the foregoing sentence will become funny.

wonder if I could make a case that all of your books are CoA in some sense?

See, we write what I call "Becoming Human" stories. I'm trying to think of any of our books that aren't -- and I don't think we missed a one.

Sigh. Agreement. Verbs and nouns. It's the right thing to do.

[otterb.livejournal.com]

See, we write what I call "Becoming Human" stories.

Yes, yes. You have just hung a label on my favorite kind of stories.

[saruby.livejournal.com]

There are classic themes, just as there are classic character archetypes. CoA is one that I find particularly powerful. But it is really a subset of Man Discovers His True Self, which is the basis of many novels that those who disdain CoAs would probably praise. I think the difference is really in the age of the character. Many of us "come of age" during our late adolescence. For some of us (me, too) it comes much later. keristor noted that Pat Rin's story in I Dare is in many ways a CoA, but I think there are parts of Val Con's part of the story that also fit, in the sense that he takes up his adult responsibilities. Perhaps what these people object to is teenagers and young adults as protagonists. Of course, CoA can be written poorly, but that is true of any story.

First person, done well, is incredibly difficult, in my opinion, particularly if you are writing characters of depth. Voice is as much an important element of a story as plot or setting. In first person that voice must be interwoven with the character in a seamless way. This requires having a truly broad and deep understanding of the character far beyond the bounds of the story. My pet peeve about first person are authors who have the same "first person" voice in every book they write despite the fact that the character is supposed to be different. That is autobiography.

[rolanni.livejournal.com]

My pet peeve about first person are authors who have the same "first person" voice in every book they write despite the fact that the character is supposed to be different.

And yet...Roger Zelazny wrote most? -- all? -- at least a heckuvalot -- of his novels in first person -- all of them a selfish, smart-ass, emotionally distant tough-guy, and his stories were so wonderful that I didn't care.

There's something to learn there -- question being what. Most Zelazny novels went hand-in-glove with that kind of character; i.e. the situation/world was such that you had to have that sort of hero to resolve the problem.

Hmmm.....

[muehe.livejournal.com]

I prefer a nice long story with a main character (or a very small group).

I have read stories where you get introduce to a new character every few chapters and then they pull them all together in the last quarter of the book. -- That I do not like.
I need to identify with the character -- I can not do that if you are constantly changing them.
Everyone loves Asimov's Foundation Trilogy -- not me. Give me Doc Smith any day.

So CoA / First person – all good. Just pull me into the story.

[(Anonymous)]

I'm sitting in a hotel room NE of Tokyo, having watch the weather go from rain to snow, now back to rain, and that I literally can't count how many of my favorite stories - scifi or otherwise - include one or more major characters going thru a coming of age/coming of maturity/coming of wisdom. Whether I liked them or not depended on the writing, not the basic plot. Many of the stories of Anne McCaffrey, Elizabeth Moon, Jo Clayton, Misty Lackey, David Weber, even Robert Jordan, carried this theme as a major part of the plot.

Crystal Singer, Trading in Danger, Jewels of the Diadem, Arrows of the Queen, Shadows of Saganami, etc.

The story can be as entertaining when the protagonist is 45 as when 15.

Brom

[eoma-p.livejournal.com]

This discussion reminded me of a conversation with a fellow member of a book club many years ago. He commented that post-apocalyptic stories are "trite." I think the book of the month was The Postman by David Brin.

I enjoy books a lot, whatever the story, and I'm suspicious of blanket statments about categories of stories.

Some books are well written by authors with an impressive command of the language; some books are built on an intriguing idea; some books tell a gripping story; some books have well drawn, gripping characters. The best books combine all of those, but I don't dismiss books just because they don't offer all those things or because of the category box in which an English professor says they belong.

I also don't believe that every book I read needs to be a Great Book that changes my life profoundly. Sometimes (most times) I just want to enjoy a good story.

Love them

[(Anonymous)]

I love the Coming of Age stories because they introduce a new environment/universe without the awkwardness of lots and lots of exposition. The reader gets to experience the newness along with the character. I'm an adventurous sort and I tend to get into the character's life as a vicarious thrill.

Now - if their voice is really whiny, really depressed (Thomas Covenant), or just plain annoying (that kid from Catcher in the Rye), I just don't LIKE them. I finish the book anyway but
it ain't my favorite.

I'm trying to think of a favorite. Do they have to be 1st person? Crystal Singer was great. Fledgling of course. Have Spacesuit Will
Travel...loved that as a high schooler.

coming of age

[(Anonymous)]

I can't believe that nobody mentioned the Queen of coming of age stories, Andre Norton. The Solar Queen, Time Trader and Moonsinger series are all CoA stories. Diann Duane also should be lauded for her young wizards series as she handles a lot of very serious CoA issues in it. The first time I read Support Your Local Wizard I was blown away by the idea that even the devil deserved a second chance. Keith Laumer told a great CoA story....even if the one that was coming of age was a tank. One of my favorite CoA stories is your own Balance of Trade...very well done. As for first person vs. other forms of storytelling, I feel that any form is valid as long as the writer keeps me involved. I remember one book that almost lost me (a hard task, as I read EVERYthing that comes in front of me; want to know how much niacin, thiamin and riboflavin there is in breakfast cereal? Just watch me try to eat breakfast without a book)as it actually jumped from first to third person...and back! Outside of this problem, the book was fairly good. I struggled through it and if it hadn't been in a library, I wouldn't have read the second book by that writer. I blame sloppy, or rather non-existant editing because the second book was obviously the same writer; just more consistant PoV...and it read better. Watching Fledgling and Saltation just...precipitate...out of the aether, as it seemed, was an educational experience for me. Having read your work since I found it, I saw the creative process of two of my favorite writers and realized that WOW!, it wasn't perfect the first time around, just really, really, really great! I am now stumbling toward writing the book I've been trying to write for ghod knows how long. Thank you so much for the inspiration.

[(Anonymous)]

Ha. This whole discussion of "becoming human" vs. "coming of age" stories is funny to me. It reminds me of when I first read Robin Hobbs' Fool's Errand. It was because of the protagonist of that book (who I think was at least in his forties) that the realization crystallized for me that Grown-Ups are People Too.

When I was little I used to think grown-ups were magical beings who could reach light switches and always knew what to do. I had this idea that at some point, when you got old (old being more than 15 or so), you went through this mysterious transformation and came out wise and infallible.

Now I'm kind of horrified by the idea that eventually I'm going to have to be a grown-up, but time seems to be running out for this magical transformation to occur.

So I guess it seems to me that "coming of age" is not so much a thing restricted to adolescence, or even a thing that can only happen once. I've already had at least one, and I'm pretty sure there's still room for development.

-Meara