On being a native speaker of a fictional language

[rolanni]

Yesterday, I spent a lot of time on the couch (ably assisted by Hexapuma, who's really getting into this nap-on-Sharon's-papers business; and Mozart, on window-watch) reading what there is of Ghost Ship to refresh myself (again) on what the story is about and how much I've told so far (day-job noise keeps drowning out story-signal). In addition to the foregoing, my mission was to circle all the weird words (English), ship names, planet names/designations, names of trees and houses, names and nicknames of people, and of course all the foreign words (Terran and Liaden, mostly), so that I can once again make a Big List for the use of the copy editor.

One of the things that I noticed, as I was red-circling things, was that I've been speaking Liaden for so long that I no longer register words like melant'i, cha'trez, van'chela, relumma, nadelm or ge'shada as "made up" when I'm writing -- which is to say, I don't remember to underline them. This is a problem. Underlining signals the typesetter that this word here is "foreign" and should be set in italics.

Hmmm. Now, I'm wondering, pursuant to our earlier discussion in this journal regarding the copy editor's bible, if it would be useful to readers if we whacked together all these Weird Words of the Liaden Universe® -- and Beyond! lists we've made over the years into a chapbook. Such an undertaking would necessarily include spoilers, so maybe that isn't well-thought, after all.

In any case, I'm guessing I'll need to go through the 'script when it's in clean-up phase, and just search on each Liaden word in turn, to make sure they're properly underlined.

*adds to the finishing list*

Comments

Computers can occasionally be useful

[johnhawkinson.livejournal.com]

If I were to do this, I would turn off my custom spellchecker dictionary (to which many of those words had been added) and then run the spellchecker on the document and note down all the words it caught...

I would really think that the folks at Baen would be happy to take a separate list of "italicize all these words" instead of making you go through and do each one. (Or, if you're interested in automation to take such a list and a document as input and produce an underlined document as output, lemme know...)

I don't know about a chapbook, but I do suspect that if you took the time to amalgamate all the Liaden Dictionaries, Glossaries, and Suchlike, your copy editor might Thank You Vociferously, so it seems like a good thing to do when you next have a dozen consecutive fortnights off :).

[klingonguy.livejournal.com]

Speaking as both a Liaden fan, and as someone who has devoted an inordinate amount of time to learning/speaking/writing a fictional language, I would very much like to see such a chapbook.

I could even be talked into helping with the grammatical side of things, if you wanted to make it more than just a glossary of terms.

[keristor.livejournal.com]

What's the break-even point on chapbooks? How many readers would you need to sign up for it to make it worthwhile?

I suspect that most of the people who buy the chapbooks wouldn't be too bothered about spoilers anyway, not the sort which are likely to be in that sort of collection, because although they may give away minor points (possibly who is in a particular book) as long as you don't go into really detailed biographies then we are likely to know most of it. For instance, saying that Pat Rin turns up in "Korval: The Next Generation"[1] is not much of a spoiler (OK, we know from that that he isn't dead yet, but then the books are often read well out of chronological order so we tend to know that sort of thing anyway).

[1] Assuming that you ever used that title, which is probably not going to happen...

[katmoonshaker.livejournal.com]

Hmmmm... Liaden/English Dictionary?? You could put the 'weird' English words into the English section (although you'd then have to come up with an equivalent in Liaden which might not be something you want to do). I should think that plants & houses might be included as well with no problem. I'd certainly buy one as soon as I have the money.

[otterb.livejournal.com]

I don't know how long this would turn out to be. I don't know that I would buy it as a chapbook in itself, but I would welcome it as one of the two "stories" in a usual chapbook.

And I became quite annoyed with a computerized Scrabble game that wouldn't let me use "delm," which is clearly a perfectly good word.

[maddoxa.livejournal.com]

depending on the word processor you're using, you can select each word once and tell it to underline that word everywhere in the document. (or just type in the word, if you don't want to find the first use).

[galeni.livejournal.com]

If you took a copy of the 'script to a computer that did not have Liaden words added to the user dictionary, you could find them quickly because they'd be red-underlined.

[(Anonymous)]

I'm joining the group in "I'd buy a glossary/chapbook"! And I too play computer word games and am miffed when the game won't accept Liaden words. :)
Barbara in Texas

Me too, me too

[(Anonymous)]

I would certainly buy a chapbook that was a Liaden Dictionary although I'm not sure I would want you to take time away at the moment from current story writing to assemble one, especially now that Ghost Ship is a work in progress.

That was a good question about how many chapbooks must be bought to hit the break even point. I for one would participate in a subscription or pre-buy if that describes it better, much like the Fledgling and Saltation writings were funded, as an incentive and to let you calculate whether it would be a viable financial endeavor. I don't mind spoilers so that doesn't enter into my calculations.

Anne in snowy Virginia (I am starting to miss my 1984 Blazer. My current Prius rides pretty low to the ground!)

Another option to identifying missing words

[jestermac.livejournal.com]

Another issue, outside of "I've been speaking Liaden for so long that I no longer register words like melant'i, cha'trez, van'chela, relumma ...", is that you have to read/re-read the story multiple times in the creation process, which causes a person's brain to start to skip words since your brain "knows" what should be there so just slides right on over various words.

Find a dedicated fan who would not mind reading and unfinished Liaden story (yes, tough, I know) and who you totally trust to not share (a really really much smaller list), and then ask them to read a section/etc and provide you a highlighted copy back.

- Jacques

Re: Another option to identifying missing words

[brock-tn.livejournal.com]

The problem is that MY brain sees most Liaden terms as being perfectly ordinary words, just as it sees the hundred-odd German terms I know as perfectly ordinary words, along with the Latin stuff I picked up while working as a legal scrivener. I couldn't just read a story and have the Liaden words just jump off the page at me.

Suspect it would be that way for a lot of dedicated fans. No the person to sic this on is someone with a large English vocabulary but no familiarity with the Liaden Universe at all.

Re: Another option to identifying missing words

[grassrose.livejournal.com]

It wouldn't be that way for me - honest! And I wouldn't tell a soul what I read, either! *g*

Re: Another option to identifying missing words

[jestermac.livejournal.com]

So, very good point.

Plan B then (pun not intended, but ha!), someone with a large English vocabulary, no familiarity with the Liaden Universe, and trusted. Hmmm.

Obviously you can pay someone to do this kind of work with cash/etc, but the original thought was for someone who was a fan who would view this cumbersome task as maybe not necessarily fun but still enjoyable since they get the benefit of reading pieces of future Lee & Miller artwork before everyone else, so basically getting paid to do work by reading something cool.

- Jacques

[sraun]

I should finish that word list...

[nlbarber]

I would also buy a glossary chapbook. With care, spoilers can be minimized--I did the dictionary/pronunciation guide for Lois Bujold's Curse of Chalion (only on the Web) and Paladin of Souls (included in the ebook), and with help from Lois got most of the definitions fairly spoiler free. Not completely, of course, but we included a warning so the truly spoiler-averse could just skip it.

[dragynsidhe.livejournal.com]

i would definiely relish a glossary of all the Weird Words Thus Far... especially with a pronunciation guide.

[ellenru.livejournal.com]

I'd also be interested in such a glossary chapbook. Perhaps it could include an update of the timeline from whichever chapbook it appeared in, since there are now several additions to the canon. I'm one of those people who likes to know where the different stories slot into the narrative chronology.

Liaden Universe ® timeline and Liaden Dictionary

[(Anonymous)]

(a) ellanru
Liaden Universe ® partial timeline - Nov 16 2002
was published LUC 2 and Baen Unibus 2, orig Shadows and Shades ALU 08

I have copied this into a spreadsheet and updated it. it has been discussed on the Liad mailing list and Binjalis on Baens Bar and can be downloaded from the latter. Since the base is copyright Our Auctors it can't be posted anywhere public without their permission.

(b) galini
A Partial Liaden Dictionary in LUC 1 and Baen Unibus 1, orig Trading in Futures ALU 05

Since nearly all the Liaden Universe ® is available in e-format the automated methods (custom dictionary) mentioned above should work fine.

Perhaps a partial Liaden Universe ® chapbook, adding the list of clans and the list of Surebleak Bosses ?

Michael Dolbear,
Little Egret in Walton-on-Thames

HI

[pat-tea.livejournal.com]

Hi Sharon,

I'm new here and stopping by to intro myself. --And I'm glad I did...because I'm new to writing and publishing, as well. *I will always remember from now on to make that 'Big List.'

I've stuffed so much in my head in such a short time already, that I'm forgetting much, too. (LOL) (That's why I love your 'insane asylum' reference!) ;)

Pat