Defining Urban Fantasy

[rolanni]

Elsewhere On the Intertubes, there’s a discussion about Urban Fantasy, and people are providing their favorite titles in-genre, which is very cool and useful, in an oh! I’ve-gotta-get-that-book kinda way.

One thing, though, is that, looking at the lists, and the titles I do know/have read, I’m finding myself parsing certain books not as “urban fantasy” but as “werewolf novel” or “vampire novel.” This is, I should state, based on the scientific process known as “gut feeling.”

I mean, the Sookie Stackhouse books are fun, but to me, they’re vampire novels, not urban fantasy. The Weather Warden books are super, but, nope, not urban fantasy. Wizard of Pigeons? Dead-on urban fantasy.

So, you’re wondering — as I am — what’s the difference? And, thinking about this. . .I think that, for a book to be urban fantasy, to me, the city/town/specific piece of land has to be a character. It’s not enough that the action is set in a certain place, the story has to be about that place to some degree; it has to be important to the story that these events are happening here, rather than over there, in Gotham.

So, yeah, the Sookie books take place now — making them Contemporary Fantasy/Vampire — but the towns and cities in which the various stories happen are. . .just settings. The life of A Specific Town isn’t threatened, or bound up tightly with the magic of the story.

In Wizard of Pigeons, the city depends for its existence on its magic-workers doing their magic correctly and consistently; in The War for the Oaks a piece of the city’s geography is under dispute by two factions of the fey. In Carousel Tides, the fate of an entire seacoast town depends upon the heroine dealing with the forces of magic appropriately.

The attraction for me, in what I call urban fantasy, is the juxtaposition of the weird with the everyday, and the degree to which each reflects and influences the other. A story about vampire or werewolf politics can be — has been — interesting to me, but — if the story can be moved to any city and told just as effectively, then the story isn’t urban fantasy.

Discuss.

Originally published at Sharon Lee, Writer. You can comment here or there.

Comments

[jelazakazone.livejournal.com]

So do you consider Carousel Tides to be urban fantasy? I think this is a useful and interesting distinction.

[rolanni.livejournal.com]

I had misgivings about the classification at first, because -- where's the urban? But, if we're going with "the geography is a character" definition, then, yes, Carousel Tides would fall into urban fantasy.

[keristor.livejournal.com]

Hmm, I think that this may be the only place I've heard that particular definition of "urban fantasy". I think all of the others I've heard use it to mean "contemporary fantasy" (with some flexibility on time as well, approximately most of the 20th century and later).

How about, for instance, Mercedes Lackey's elves in various cities? I would find those to be "urban fantasy" by definition (they are actually set in urbes) but by yours I guess they wouldn't be because the city is (in most cases) just a setting and not involved itself? (They are actually set in places which to me are mythical, like San Francisco, but most of them could be moved almost anywhere without changing anything I'd notice.)

[rolanni.livejournal.com]

I think that this may be the only place I've heard that particular definition of "urban fantasy". I think all of the others I've heard use it to mean "contemporary fantasy" (with some flexibility on time as well, approximately most of the 20th century and later).

Is why this is a discussion question, nu? I'm thinking that "urban fantasy" is suffering from bloat, and that vampire,werewolf, and zombie sub-genres have grown big enough to be their own various things.

How about, for instance, Mercedes Lackey's elves in various cities?

Um. Sorry. Don't read Mercedes Lackey. Completely due to my own lack of taste.

Bloat -- Sign of the Apocalypse

[(Anonymous)]

Barnes & Noble -- at least the ones in Chicago --have solved a large part of the vampire/werewolve/bloat problem by having an entire section of shelves labeled "teen paranormal romance." Which horrifies me, although I would probably have felt differently when I was a teen. (And yes, Iknow a lot of the book are aimed way beyond even today's teens, but "paranormal romance" does cover a lot the the "bloat" area.)

[(Anonymous)]

In the past the label "urban fantasy" has been applied to any type of fantasy set in a town or city environment (i.e. not rural) the here-and-now. Originally, that would include vampires, werewolves, fairies, and assorted others. However in recent years vampires and werewolves have developed into their own sub-genres with their own rules, and most of them could be set anywhere.

I like your suggestion that to be considered "urban fantasy" today, the city/town should be a character. However, I would qualify that by adding that it really does need to be an urban place, not too rural. War for the Oaks could have been set in Cleveland or Cincinnati and would still have worked as urban fantasy - but it couldn't have been set in Podunk, USA.

Mary in MN

[readinggeek451]

My definition of 'urban fantasy' seems to require elves and other traditional fae. Vampires and werewolves are 'horror' (and I don't read them), everything else is 'contemporary fantasy'.

This makes Mercedes Lackey' elves-and-race-cars books urban fantasy, even though they're set in the rural South, which is weird, but that's the way my mind works. ::shrug::

[kinzel.livejournal.com]

So, since we can't quite tell what befell the city -- and if romance per se isn't a requirement, does that mean that Dhalgren is an Urban Fantasy? Does Peter Beagle's A Fine and Private Place qualify?

[pedanther]

My immediate gut feeling is that "A Fine and Private Place" isn't urban fantasy. As a first attempt at explaining why, I suggest that it doesn't have an urban setting. The setting of story is the cemetery, not the city that presumably surrounds it; I don't think we're even told which city it is, but even if we are it doesn't make a great difference. The life of the city doesn't impinge on the goings-on in the cemetery; in fact, that's part of the point of the novel.

Dhalgren I still haven't read yet.

Nice working definition

[(Anonymous)]

I like this as a working definition -- although I suppose all genres go soft & blurry around the edges. By your definition, Lev Grossman's wonderful "The Magicians" & its sequel would not be urban fantasy despite the partial NY setting, because the mundane setting could just as well be Chicago or Atlanta. On the other hand, Neil Gaiman's "American Gods" would qualify, because even though Shadow goes traipsing all over the US, the setting-- both the New World generally & the various place within the US -- is utterly bound up with the magic of the story, and drives the plot.

[estara.livejournal.com]

Hah, that makes Michelle Sagara's Elantra series definitely urban fantasy in a secondary world - that works for me ^^ - as much as the secrets, history and features of that particular metropolis are cause and root for the various plots and the personal history of Kaylin as a kid from the bad part of town.

I already thought so, but it's nice to get an eloquent gut reason for it.

[serge-lj.livejournal.com]

A bit off topic... At the recent worldcon there was a panel about Urbane fantasy, which I'd have liked to see, and not just because I think I had first coined the term over at "Making Light". My made-up example was "Shadow on the Vermouth", in which Nick and Nora Charles fight lovecraftian menaces. I guess Jeeves & Wooster vs Dread Aunt Agatha would also fall into that category. :-)

[attilathepbnun.livejournal.com]

I like your examples!'Shadows on the vermouth' sounds like something Thorne Smith wrote ...
And 'Wizard of Pigeons' sounds int-eresting ...

[serge-lj.livejournal.com]

I for one would be interested in seeing oor hostess try her hand/pen at something like this.

[welhar.livejournal.com]

To me, urban fantasy is the concept that as we go about our everyday normal lives, there are things that happen that are not ordinary: whether it is elves or fairies or werewolves or whatever. The overriding principle is that the fact these things exist do not impact 99.9% of the people going about their daily lives. Carousel Tides fits in that category. Sookie Stackhouse does not. Sagara's Elantra series is fantasy. Patty Briggs series started off urban fantasy and moved on to more of a fantasy genre. :)

[pedanther]

I've heard that called "wainscot fantasy": there are things living in the walls of the world, like mice, and most of the time you'd never know they're there. A lot of urban fantasy is also wainscot fantasy, but I think of them as separate (if overlapping) things.

[saruby.livejournal.com]

I just finished re-reading "The Enchantment Emporium" by Tanya Huff, which, I think fits into your definition, but maybe not. Definitely, the place is important but I'm not sure if it is a "character". Yet, to me, it is clearly urban fantasy. But also contemporary fantasy. I think part of the problem is that the distinctions between various subgenres can be a bit fuzzy and publishers like the simplicity of being about to give books an easy label. "Urban Fantasy" thus means "the story takes place in a world that is like our current world with something fantastical about it". Personally, I tend to break between magic workers (urban fantasy) and magical beings (urban paranormal). Even so, there are crossovers.

Sookie Stackhouse: urban paranormal
Mercy Thompson: urban paranormal (but has magic workers)
"Carousel Tides": urban fantasy (but has magical beings)
Toby Daye: urban fantasy (but has magical beings)
"Enchantment Emporium": urban fantasy (but has magical beings)
"Blood Ties": urban paranormal

Maybe the breakdown is: vampires and werewolves = urban paranormal, everything else = urban fantasy.

[skapusniak.livejournal.com]

I think the existence of Terry Pratchett makes this definition fail, or at least makes this definition not enough, because even though I'm pretty sure Ankh-Morpokh is an important character in many of those Discworld novels that are set there, and Discworld is pretty clearly Fantasy among other things, I just can't see them as *Urban* Fantasies.

I guess I need the interpenetration of at least two spaces that are alien to one another but still influence each other, one of which is The City to make it Urban Fantasy. I need the sense of 'as above, so below'. The worlds need to be creeping and bleeding into each other around the edges.

Elves/Sidhe work for this, because as a trope they to come with their own alien space (Faerie). Demons (Hell) and Angels (Heaven) should work as well. Vampires and Werewolves mostly don't because they're generally native to the same reality as the Normals rather than an overlapping one.

Thinking about it that's probably too narrow a definition to be useful to a bookseller, and wouldn't it make The City and The City urban fantasy?

Interesting discussion, folks

[(Anonymous)]

I like the concept of place-as-character being part of the definition. Looking at what
I've read recently...yeah, I'd buy that def. Laura Gilman's work is so entwined with NYC,
and I don't think the Iron Druid Chronicles would work without Tempe, AZ. Same with
other cities and Sniegoski's or Kat Richardson's works. Tanya Huff also...she
introduced me to some very cool Canadian cities. Butcher is definitely associated with
Chicago.

Terry Pratchett is in a classification by himself - I call it (as a bookseller) humorous fantasy or fantastical satire.

The City and The City I actually put in the Mystery section. I had Liz Miller there too
for awhile.

What would y'all say about Stephen King? The eerie, non-horror stuff? I'm curious.
Matheson and Bradbury are kinda in the same realm.
Lauretta@ConstellationBooks

genres

[claire774.livejournal.com]

Very interesting. I'm not really familiar with these. I confess to only knowing Sookie S. from the TV version on HBO.

C.

Re: genres

[star-horse3.livejournal.com]

Please, don't base your opinion of the Charlaine Harris' Sookie novels on the HBO series. The series has diverged widely from the books, and many of the fans of the books are not fans of the series (and vice versa). But I have always thought of these books as vampire stories just as the subtitle calls them "southern vampire mysteries"

[ruthannereid.livejournal.com]

A good thought! I think I agree with you, actually. "Urban fantasy" always has kickass somebody, usually with tattoos. A grittier feel.