Essay Question: Ghost Ship Cliffhanger!
Thursday, November 24th, 2011 06:52 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
rolanniWARNING: There may be spoilers for Ghost Ship in comments. This is a Warning, this is your only Warning. Proceed at your own risk.
Edited to Add:
Reminder to Anonymous Posters: 1. Please sign your post(s); 2. Anonymous posts don't appear until I manually OK them. That means that sometimes -- like today, for instance -- there will be a period of hours before you will be able to see your post. This is how the system is supposed to work, and you don't need to resubmit.
To everyone: Good discussion; keep it coming.
So! There's an expressed view that Ghost Ship ends on a cliffhanger, in the form of The Epilogue. We frequently get rapped for "cliffhangers," a charge I happen to think is (1) unfortunate and (2) inaccurate, but that's a rant for another day. What's interesting about the Ghost Ship "cliffhanger" is that the presence of the epilogue creates the "cliffhanger."
My question to you, then, is --
Would Ghost Ship have been a fuller and more satisfying read for you, had there been no epilogue? Explain, with diagrams, if necessary.
Mind you, Steve and I discussed this very thing at some length, and you see where we finally came down. I do think this is a topic worthy of in-depth examination, and I'm interested to hear opinions.
Have at it.
Edited to Add:
Reminder to Anonymous Posters: 1. Please sign your post(s); 2. Anonymous posts don't appear until I manually OK them. That means that sometimes -- like today, for instance -- there will be a period of hours before you will be able to see your post. This is how the system is supposed to work, and you don't need to resubmit.
To everyone: Good discussion; keep it coming.
So! There's an expressed view that Ghost Ship ends on a cliffhanger, in the form of The Epilogue. We frequently get rapped for "cliffhangers," a charge I happen to think is (1) unfortunate and (2) inaccurate, but that's a rant for another day. What's interesting about the Ghost Ship "cliffhanger" is that the presence of the epilogue creates the "cliffhanger."
My question to you, then, is --
Would Ghost Ship have been a fuller and more satisfying read for you, had there been no epilogue? Explain, with diagrams, if necessary.
Mind you, Steve and I discussed this very thing at some length, and you see where we finally came down. I do think this is a topic worthy of in-depth examination, and I'm interested to hear opinions.
Have at it.
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no subject
Date: 2011-11-25 12:21 am (UTC)my book is not here, so i do not know what precisely is in the cliffhanger, but if it is the place where we find out that some people are not as dead as one might have been led to believe, then it is a million times better with the cliffhanger, because without it it would have been such a sad ending (although the tree gave a certain person two seed pods, so one kind of knows anyway, but ...). so, if that is the cliffhanger, then: definite thumbs up!!!
no subject
Date: 2011-11-25 12:36 am (UTC)So, I personally look forward to cliffhangars.
Lorna
Love the epi
Date: 2011-11-25 12:43 am (UTC)Ellen says
Date: 2011-11-25 12:47 am (UTC)I think that the epilogue enriched this novel. I enjoy books that work in references from prior titles -even in an epigram. And there must be hope that the great big bad awful thing DID NOT happen to a beloved character. And did not the Tree did give a kernel that wasn't quite ripe yet?
And yes it is a cliffhanger right up there with Saturday matinees. I figure it is a good marketing ploy.
By the way way way off topic... I would like to find out more about the assassination attempt that Daav's older brother, Aunt and mother endured. My daughter and I are having a discussion about recycling.
no subject
Date: 2011-11-25 12:51 am (UTC)Without the epilogue I would have found it more of a full stop ending which I don't find as much to my taste - particularly if it had ended with the death, even if the magic tech had kicked in at the beginning of Dragon Ship. I'd rather see possibilities at the end and leaving things open for change (and cliffhangery) than have an end which is a pause in the action. Although, to argue from the other side, there is something to be said for the "pause in the action" ending. In this case, I didn't feel that the ending would have been that pause given that there was too much going on that I hadn't seen the answers to yet and even the "heroic" death would have been depressing to me.
I agree with Ellenru
Date: 2011-11-25 03:04 am (UTC)You didn't pull a Jim Butcher manuever, by having Harry Dresden get shot and fall back into the water on the last line of the book, with nothing saying whether or not he was dead and we'd never hear from him again, and then give us a follow-up book a year or so later that has Dresden as a freakin' GHOST, unable to really do much but talk, for the whole book. THAT hacked me off, because it smelled like what Conan Doyle did with Sherlock Holmes by having him fall over Reichenbach Falls...and you just can't kill iconic characters at the end of a novel and not expect fan outcry.
no subject
Date: 2011-11-25 12:59 am (UTC)But then, I didn't feel like it was a cliffhanger either. While it promises future events that we can't yet witness, for me a cliffhanger has a requirement that the next few moments could easily go different ways. The fact that we are provided with signs of life, and immediate access to life-preserving technology of a superior nature, says to me that the short-term outcome is not in doubt. Rescue had (unexpectedly) arrived.
Ghost Ship
Date: 2011-11-25 12:59 am (UTC)Re: Ghost Ship
Date: 2011-11-25 11:55 am (UTC)Not a real cliffhanger..
Date: 2011-11-25 01:00 am (UTC)I felt content, but was left wanting more, which i believe is the whole point. =)
Cliffhanger...
Date: 2011-11-25 01:00 am (UTC)And you HAVE to find a better way to identify the poster. I do not belong to any of those choices.
Harvey
fishman@panix.com
Ghost Ship Epilogue
Date: 2011-11-25 01:09 am (UTC)Hurry, hurry, write faster.
no subject
Date: 2011-11-25 01:22 am (UTC)What pedanther said
Date: 2011-11-28 05:22 pm (UTC)I was crushed to read that Daav was caught out by the agents and that, although he successfully completed his mission, he appeared to be on his way out. To learn that rescue was at hand was cheering and gave hope that All Would Be Satisfactorily Resolved in the upcoming sequel.
I, too, trust to the Luck, and to the Tree's foretelling via the not-yet-ripe pods. It makes the wait for Dragon Ship a little bit more endurable ~
LynneW
cliffhanger
Date: 2011-11-25 01:48 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2011-11-25 02:14 am (UTC)Exactly the opposite
Date: 2011-11-25 02:36 am (UTC)The Epilogue relieved that uncertainty, though admittedly replacing it with uncertainty of its own kind. In that sense it left the story with less of a cliffhanger than had it not been there.
No need to change
Date: 2011-11-25 02:39 am (UTC)Re: No need to change
Date: 2011-11-25 09:44 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2011-11-25 02:45 am (UTC)Keep up the great work (just, yanno, _faster_) ;-)
Jim
no subject
Date: 2011-11-25 03:30 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2011-11-25 03:33 am (UTC)The hope generated by the epilogue MORE than makes up for any extra suspense generated by the cliffhanger.
no subject
Date: 2011-11-25 03:37 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2011-11-25 04:07 am (UTC)cliffhanger
Date: 2011-11-25 04:46 am (UTC)Ghost Ship felt rich, full and complete. As someone else commented, all the major story arcs are updated and left at a comfortable place for the next book. To me, the epilogue felt just right.
Re: cliffhanger
Date: 2011-11-28 02:18 am (UTC)The story lines progressed nicely I thought. Some story lines filled in, others presented so we do have anticipation.
Toward the end at the party and the dancing, I was anticipating having the scene from the Stars Underfoot chap book. :)
As for Daav he's in Uncle's capable hands and I'm thinking we'll see him again come the next installment.
The richness is very rewarding and I look forward to the next book.
Epilogue was good - but maybe not a cliffhanger
Date: 2011-11-25 04:53 am (UTC)If the action in the epilogue had, instead, been the opening of Dragon Ship, I think it would have felt false to me. Something along the lines of Bobby Ewing coming out of the shower on Dallas, or Sherlock Holmes returning from Reichenbach Falls - a plot device the author resorts to in order to get out of a corner, rather than a natural sequence of events.
Mary in MN
if the epilogue had...been the opening of Dragon Ship
Date: 2011-11-26 01:17 am (UTC)Cliffhangers, unanswered questions, hooks, and other mysteries
Date: 2011-11-25 05:15 am (UTC)I don't think the epilogue in Ghost Ship fits. We've had the climactic action scene (Chapter 42! Fire and fury, a fight to the death! My gosh, a key character fights off the bad guys, then with his last gasp of effort, disables the timer on the bomb that's been ticking down, and falls into the arms of his... Well, there was definitely a climactic scene there. Talk about climax!
So what does the epilogue add to that plot line? Basically, I think it's the reaction. It gave us a chance to relax after the tension of that climax. Here's the cleanup, checking the dead bodies, thinking about what to do with the defused pod, and... I need a field 'doc. Immediately.
Really, it took the edge OFF the climax. Yes, the epilogue sets the stage for the future, but it also cleans up the bad case of dead main character that we almost had, without any followup. Instead, we've got Theo with her secrets in the cellar, Val Con and Miri with a new life, and ... tada, even the slam-bam action line that just killed the main character has a resurrection. COOL!
Look at what happens if we cut the epilogue. Sure, we've got the uplift of Theo and her cellar, Val Con and Miri's baby, but... we also have a key character who apparently has just died turning off a ticking clock bomb and saving lots of people. If the story ends without some resolution of that kick in the teeth... not good. So we need something to wind up that plot line, unless we really want to leave it dangling (which would be a cliff hanger of a different sort. Who killed JR? What will happen when everyone finds out about the heroic sacrifice?)
Incidentally, there's another key piece of information in that epilogue. The pod is dead. No explosion. Without this epilogue, indeed, we are left with a possible cliff hanger -- will the pod blow? Will Korval be responsible for killing all those people in the space camps and tour ships? Stay tuned for the next... But no. The Uncle lets us know that the pod is dead.
I think I'd classify this as a hook. Or foreshadowing, maybe. Giving us a hint of information about what is coming. Kind of like a certain someone walking on stage and saying "It's complicated." That's not a cliff hanger, it's an invitation to come back and see the next thrilling episode. No threat to the characters, you know no one is going to fall into the river, but you are curious.
Call it a teaser, or maybe a movie trailer? But not a cliff hanger.
Re: Cliffhangers, unanswered questions, hooks, and other mysteries
Date: 2011-11-25 12:14 pm (UTC)Melvyn
(another m barker)
no subject
Date: 2011-11-25 05:17 am (UTC)Does Daav live? Is Win Ton restored to radiant health? Will Aelliana gain a more, um, *visible* presence? And then there's Kamele bearing down upon Surebleak ...
Can't! Hardly! Wait!
Not a Cliffhanger
Date: 2011-11-25 06:46 am (UTC)Tanya K.
Re: Not a Cliffhanger
Date: 2011-11-25 07:55 pm (UTC)