Eagles Over the Kennebec

The question, please!

I know this is after your deadline, but the question didn’t appear in my attention sphere until yesterday. In some of the audio books, scenes shift mid-chapter without any indication. It’s as if the reader didn’t notice the scene change markers or didn’t find the need to include them in the story. It takes me a bit to sort out what happened and is confusing for the person encountering the story for the first time. I realize you can’t change what is already one. Is there anything that can be done about this for future audio books ?

Short answer:  Nope; not a thing we can do about audiobook production; that's 'way above our pay grade.

Long answer: But!  We think we figured out why this problem occurs, so at least you can know why this happens.

So far as we can figure it, this has to do with how the books are put together technically.  When we, the authors, turn in a book, we denote breaks within the same scene with the Venerable Single Hatch Mark, like this:

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This is not a writer's tool, it is a typesetting tool.  The hatch mark tells the typesetter that there's a scene-break right here, and the typesetter, according to the traditions of her clan, removes the hatch mark and replaces it with two blank lines.  This is how scene breaks appear in finished paper novels.

Now, what happens is that the readers get the typeset edition of the book, not the author's manuscript (this is a good thing; the typeset edition has also been copy edited, line edited, and in general made better than the manuscript, because authors do crazy things in manuscripts, I can't even tell you).

But, wait, there's more!  Not only do the readers get the typeset edition, they get an electronic version of the typeset edition.  Which they import into their Ipads, for ease of use (and absence of rustling pages) in the recording booth.

And what we think happens is that -- between the conversions those double spaces denoting screen breaks -- get lost.

So, yeah, you're right; it's just like the readers don't see that there's a new scene starting, because, well, the marker isn't there for them to see.

Here ends the answer to the third question.

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Previous Answers:
Second Questions Answered
The First Answer

Methodology:  Choose a question from the screened comments on this post.

I received 35 responses to this post, containing 65 questions.  One response  contained a record 22 questions.

More than half of the questions received are massive spoilers for the Liaden Universe®.  This is fair -- the name of the game, after all, is Ask Me Anything, not, I'll Answer Anything.

So!  Today's question is!

Do your characters sometimes head in a different direction than you were planning in your stories? And if so what do you do, do you try to force them into the original direction, cut that scene out and change characters, see where they want to go, or something else? How do you deal with a stubborn character?

Our-and-my characters always have their own ideas about where they're going, why they're going there, and what they will and won't do when they get there.

We consider this a feature.

Characters who have their own ideas about themselves and their lives, and strong feelings about what is proper -- or needed -- are what we want.  This may occasionally spoil or even void a scene, which is certainly inconvenient, but scenes can be rewritten, after all.  Stories are about characters.  To tell our stories properly,  we need to listen to the characters.

Being character-driven writers means that we are what's sometimes called "organic writers" -- which means we don't produce an outline at the beginning of a story and stick with it, come ice or nor'easter.  We do start with a general idea of where we, mere authors, think the story's going, but even that's subject to change.  As a rule, the things that must happen, happen because they are necessary to the character(s).  I would say "to the character(s) arc," but that would imply that we have some kind of control over that.

I have gone into a book knowing that one particular character, created for that book, would not survive their arc.  In fact, they would redeem themselves in death.  Except. . .in the course of the book, they redeemed themselves many times over, and bought back their life, in essence.  Which meant I needed to write a different ending, but, hey -- that's what writers are for.

Dealing with a stubborn character -- Steve and I learned our lesson there on the very first Liaden book -- Agent of Change -- where we were working with -- a very simple outline.  But one of the set pieces was that Val Con would arrive at a certain place in need of transportation, and that he would therefore steal a spaceship.  In fact, as it clearly stated in the outline, he was to steal a ship belonging to a friend, that was berthed at the station.

I was lead on Agent, by reason of having no day-job at the time, and I was zipping right along, barely able to type fast enough to keep up with Miri and Val Con, and there!  We got to the space station, there was the ship, and Val Con -- stopped.

Stopped dead, right there on the page.

I figured I needed a break, got up, took a walk, came back, wiggled my fingers over the keys and said to Val Con, "OK, then!  Time to steal a spaceship!"

Nothing happened.

I showed him the outline, where it said, clearly, Val Con steals ship.

He shrugged.

Nothing happened.  I pushed.  I put in a line, typed *** to indicate a scene change, and tried to jump ahead, to where he was already on the ship.

Nope, nada, nothing.

I went back to the original scene, and tried to give him a little shove down toward the dock, and was informed that yes, I was the one with the typewriter, and I could, in theory, make him steal the ship, but if I did, he would never work for me again.

Well, that was unnerving, so I got up and went into the kitchen to make bread.

Eventually, Steve came home from his day-job, took a look at my face, and said,  "What's wrong?"

"Val Con won't steal the spaceship."

"Oh, won't he?"  said Steve.  "I'll talk to him, OK?"

"OK," I said, and started to pull stuff to make dinner.

He disappeared into the living room (my desk was in a corner of the living room in those days), and I heard the typewriter start, then stop.  A couple lines were typed; paper was ripped out of the platen.  New paper was rolled in, a couple keystrokes, then. . .nothing.

At dinner, Steve said, "Val Con won't steal the spaceship."

"Right," I said, and we put our heads together and talked the scene over and how we'd gotten to the scene, and, eventually, realized our error.  Val Con and the owner of the ship he was to steal were friends.  Val Con did have his honor, and while he might do many things, steal from a friend, he would not.

So, we, as writers, had a couple choices before us.  We could change the ship-to-be-stolen, so that it no longer belonged to a friend.  This was actually the easiest solution, but we thought about it some more, and decided that there was a better solution, and we went back a few pages in the manuscript and wrote in a sentence where the friend gave Val Con permission to use any resource belonging to the friend that he might need.

After that adjustment was made, we went back to the space station -- and Val Con was already moving toward that ship, a spring in his step, and reviewing the best places to Jump for.

So, yanno -- that's how you deal with a stubborn character.

Here ends the answer to the First Question.

Steve says:

We may have finally found a place capable of doing a new round of quality Liaden related shirts and t-shirts, including some embroidered items.  We're due to talk in depth with these folks RSN -- as in after our book tour.

In our as yet very preliminary discussions a question of quantity comes up, because while embroidered items can be done on an "each" basis (we've got several samples on hand of the embroidery quality), the screen-printing process works best for larger quantities. So, without specifying colors/special wording or the like, we need to figure out if there's a current market for Liaden-themed t-shirts as well as denim embroidered. Yes, there's a minimum practical number, but we're not sure yet where that will turn out to be.

What do you think? Would you want one t-shirt? Three? One for every day of the week? Multiple colors? We'll be asking on our Facebook groups and while we're on tour.

This is preliminary interest, these are surveys and not order-taking. Nothing firm will happen until later in the summer or early fall.

Thanks!

Kyrstellaine asks:

Is the lacework that Theo does based on some real-world lace technique, or is it Liaden-world only?

We didn't know about it when we started Theo on her lace work, but it turns out that there's this, and this, and this, among other similar projects; so plainly other minds work in like fashion.

* * *

Judy asks:

Do you ever find yourselves talking like some of your Liaden characters? I.e., “All joy…”, etc.

Sadly, yes.  It seems to come most easily when I'm Very Annoyed.  I'm inclined to view it as a Good Thing, because if I'm using the energy to speak in Rolling Periods, and Broad Irony, I'm not throwing things.

* * *

Betsy asks:

Which of you writes dialogue and which one writes plot? Or do you divide up the writing in some other fashion?

Oh, we both write the dialogue; I'm not sure who writes our plots, but I'd sure like to have a word with them.  I know that some collaborators split the writing tasks, or certain characters will only be written by one writer; other characters by the other. . .we don't do that.  Whoever is on-point has to do the Whole Job of Writing -- Voice; Description; Plot; Ripping Out the Stitches when something didn't work, and Setting In New Ones.

The reason this works for us is that we role-play the characters and the scenes and talk constantly about where we think the story's going -- lamentably, a moving target -- so we're both on-board with what the characters sound like; their motivations; their vulnerabilities and their goals.

* * *

Lacey asks:

Will there be a backstory on the norbears? (Much more about them, please.) Or on the dea’Gauss line and how they linked to Korval?

For norbears -- have you seen Out of True?

On dea'Gauss -- that's a possibility -- everything's a possibility -- but it's not something we're planning on writing soon.

* * *

Amanda asks:

Will the “5 book dash” bring the current Liaden storyline to a close? and related (but not exactly the same), what are your plans for retirement and will your current backlog fund such?

It's our intent that The Five Book Dash will bring closure to the combined Agent of Change/Theo story arcs.

Retirement -- no writer I've ever known has actually -- or wanted to -- retire.  Andre Norton had a novel published the year she died -- at 93.  Anne McCaffrey was still writing when she died  -- at 85.

I can't speak to their personal affairs, but, unless A Miracle Occurs, we're not going to be able to afford to retire.  I hope to avoid spending my last years under a bridge, but it's possible that I will.

* * *

And, finally, OtterB asks:

It’s a minor point, all things considered, but it nags at me. What does Surebleak use for power when Pat Rin first arrives? Presumably the port has its own generators (or whatever), but what about the streets? It doesn’t seem like there’s enough cooperation to allow an electrical generation and distribution system, but on the other hand, I don’t get the impression from the description that they’re using, say, oil lamps either. Can you (heh) shed some light on this?

I'm thinking Handwavium, myself.

* * *

Thanks to everyone who contributed a question!  Even though I didn't get to them all, I appreciate the time you took to ask!

Drammar asks:

You’ve described what it’s like to write as part of a team — how either you or Steve will be the “driver” for the book, and that the driver has a tie-breaking vote concerning the book, and that you role scenes with one another, etc.

What I’m curious about is what happens when you (specifically you, Sharon) are working on a single author title. Does Steve act as a sounding board, do you discuss plot points with him, or are the only voices in your head the ones of the current characters?

Well...the easy answer is that, in my experience, if you have two (or more) writers living in close proximity, each of them is going to have a finger in whatever pie happens to be baking at the time.  Even lacking Proximate Writers, it's not at all unusual for writers to ask other writers for aid -- in looking over an awkward scene, or reading a draft to see if it makes sense, or to bounce ideas off of.  More on this in a moment.

Now, with the Carousel books and stories, I Very Much Wanted to write about Old Orchard Beach, a resort town in Maine of which I am quite foolishly fond.  I also wanted to write about Googin(s) Rock, which exists inside the borders of the town and is Enormously Spooky-Looking and, so, well, magical, that even the sea runs strange around it.

Steve, however, was Very Much Less Interested in writing a story about a magical rock, nor was he Anywhere Near as entranced as I was with the puzzle of fitting a fantasy story into a "real" town; the technical challenge, in essence, of crafting a story that worked on both the mundane level and on the magical level.

(Occasionally, I get Strange Fascinations; I offer as Exhibit A Rool Tiazan and his Good Lady.  Steve has learned to just stand aside and wait.)

So, anyway; it was abundantly clear that, if I wanted to write a book about Archers Beach, I was going to have to do it myself.  I had by this time already written Barnburner and Gunshy -- mysteries based in the fictional Central Maine town of Wimsy, during those ten years when we weren't able to sell any of our writing to anybody, and I sat down to write about Archers Beach knowing, at least, that I could write a novel "by myself."

(It is a curiosity that the books I've written "by myself" have all been told in first person.  Especially considering how much I like to hop heads.  But the first voice I heard when I opened up a new file, intending to sketch out the story, was Kate's, and we never looked back.)

I pitched the concept to Madame the Agent, who. . .shared Steve's enthusiasm for the project, but I wrote it anyway, because, by that time, I had to.

For me, writing a book involves a lot of wandering around the house and Staring at Nothing.  Steve is used to this behavior, so -- no change in the household routine, there.

What was a little different was that, at the time Carousel Tides was written -- in 2006 -- matters with Meisha Merlin were starting to come to a head.  We hadn't been paid for the delivery of Crystal Soldier or Crystal Dragon, or seen the upfront money for the book under contract -- Web of the Trident.  Our agent had counseled us not to turn in that book until the money had gotten caught up.  Steve was valiantly trying to write Web so that it would be ready for delivery when the checks came in.

I started to write Carousel Tides -- that's Steve's title, by the way-- thinking maybe having another, different, book on offer might be a Good Thing, and also -- had to, above.

In addition to wandering around the house, staring at nothing, I bounced ideas off of Steve, and when the first draft of the book was done, I asked writer friends to read and critique it for me.  After that, I went into revisions, and, sometime after that, I sent the completed manuscript to Madame the Agent, who sent it around all during 2007 and 2008 to unanimous rejection, until it finally came to rest at Baen, in 2009, and was published in 2010.

When it came to writing Carousel Sun and Carousel Seas, Steve continued to act as a sounding board and first reader.  He also took up the slack with washing dishes, doing laundry, cooking, and all the rest of the household tasks that are handed off to the non-rolling partner when the other is on a Writing Roll.

How's that for a Long, Rambling Answer.

Thanks for asking!

Andrea asks:

I tend to discover new fandoms via fan fiction that has been written for them, so I wish there was more Liaden fan fiction so more people like me could discover this wonderful universe, but I know that that is only one simple reader’s perspective and am honestly/really curious about how you feel about fan fiction in general and for your own universes in particular. Is it strange/uncomfortable to have other people interpret one’s own characters, or …? Thanks!!!

I'm obliged to you for the information that there is so little Liaden fanfic out there, though, frankly, I wish there were none.  I don't want "other people interpreting" our characters. Interpreting our characters is what Steve and I do; it's our job.  Nobody else is going to get it right.

This may sound rude and elitist, but honestly, it's not easy for us to get it right sometimes, and we've been living with these characters. . .for a very long time.  I created the prototypes for Val Con and Miri when I was 12 -- so that's almost 50 years together at this point, and there are still misunderstandings.

So, my position with regard to fanfic of our work?  We built our universes, and our characters; they are our intellectual property; and they are not toys lying about some virtual sandbox for other kids to pick up and modify at their whim.  Steve and I do not sanction fanfic written in our universes; any such work that exists, exists without our permission, and certainly without our support.

I know that some of my colleagues think that having their stuff fanficed is swell, and actively encourage derivative work.  So my advice, for people with a yen to write fanfic, is to work in the universes of those authors who permit and encourage it -- and to respect the wishes of those of us who do not.

Thank you for your question.

So, a day of oddities and wonders.

The answer to the Very Simple Question is apparently not at all simple. This is…disappointing. I was hoping to get through the rest of this year (which started, as those playing along at home will recall) with Steve receiving a ICD implant, after a Discovered Check pulmonary situation during his stay in the hospital, last October, for pneumonia (deep breath) Without. Any. More. Drama.(tm).

Wishes, ladies and gentlemen, are apparently still not horses. You heard it here first.

Continuing with the theme, I today received in the mail the copyright certificate for Pilots Choice, which we filed for, it says here, in May 2009. I guess the Library of Congress ran out of stamps. Still, it’s good to see it, and it will be filed with its kinfolk, in due time.

Also! An Alert Reader lets us know that The Crystal Variation by Sharon Lee and Steve Miller, published earlier this month by Baen Books, an omnibus edition including three novels: Crystal Soldier, Crystal Dragon, and Balance of Trade — has been listed in Locus Magazine’s Classic Reprints section, here.

So, anyhow, I’m tired now; it’s been a long day, in it’s way.

See y’all tomorrow.

Progress on the Book Presently known as George
54,575 of 100,000 OR 54.6% complete

“By the blood of the Bedel,” Rafin breathed, “you have eyes, do you not, little one? This. . .” Strong teeth showed in a dark, angular face, as he held the ragged lump up and shook it. “This will do, I think. Eh? Eh?” The grin became a shout of laughter that rang the dark metal behind them.

Originally published at Sharon Lee, Writer. You can comment here or there.