Really, they're talking Liaden

[rolanni]

So, I'm noodling along through Scout's Progress, though not nearly as quickly as I had hoped today because the day-job wanted me to, like, work -- what's with that, exactly? -- and! I find a section where Daav and Er Thom are walking in the garden, talking, and there is a word -- a foreign word! -- properly italicized in their conversation.

What word? you ask breathlessly.

Moxie.




I'm for the couch, red pen, paperclips and galleys in hand.

Comments

[redpimpernel.livejournal.com]

Oy gevalt!

[wolflahti.livejournal.com]

I've been told that the soda Moxie tastes like earwax.

Haven't tried it myself.

[pgranzeau.livejournal.com]

It might be italics to show emphasis.

[mardott.livejournal.com]

NO - it's italics to show it's an English word within the stream of Liaden. Perhaps it's a case of there not being a Liaden word that says it quite as well as the English one.

[rolanni.livejournal.com]

Indeed, it is -- the italics donate a foreign word within context. The trouble is, I've been busily underlining-for-ital all the Liaden words...which kinda makes what to do about "moxie" a puzzle.

[gentlescholar.livejournal.com]

Emphasize its alien nature by leaving it not italicized, I suggest. The idea is to have the word stick out as seeming "out of place" in the flow. This person's opinion.

[pgranzeau.livejournal.com]

This is my opinion only:

You're writing English, not Liaden; therefore, you are already translating Liaden into English. Moxie is American slang--why not indicate that the speaker uses a Terran slang word by putting it in quotes rather than indicating it is untranslated Liaden, where you use italics, or better yet, leave it alone completely?

[rolanni.livejournal.com]

Moxie is American slang--why not indicate that the speaker uses a Terran slang word by putting it in quotes

It's an idea. But it looks Profoundly Ugly on the page.

or better yet, leave it alone completely?

This would be my preference. Says she who is Sick To Death of underlining perfectly good words.

[robotech-master.livejournal.com]

Amusing note #1: One of my friends tells me that his great-grandfather is the man who created Moxie—and it has been the shame of the family ever since. :)

Amusing note #2: There's an arthouse movie theater here in Springfield, Missouri named the Moxie.

isn't moxie yiddish? (the noun not the soda)

[(Anonymous)]

The soda - I only tried one can - was, um, interesting. Kinda sasparella-like, kinda ginger-ale-like...not that sweet as I recall. It probably would have grown on me with usage.

Yiddish is the source of so many interesting words.
My favorite is the one about the not-very-bright-individual. I first heard it when someone was talking about a woodpecker trying to peck a light post. Yes, this was Pikesville, a very Jewish portion of town.
Like Methusellah - um, meshugana? MAybe?
Lauretta@ConstellationBooks

Re: isn't moxie yiddish? (the noun not the soda)

[rolanni.livejournal.com]

Might be. I know so many Yiddish words that I didn't know were Yiddish, due to an...interesting up-bringing. It is kind of...odd how many people's first take on this is the soda. I never heard of Moxie-the-soda until I moved to Maine.

Like Methusellah - um, meshugana? MAybe?

Meshugas -- crazy like your Uncle Phil.

[hapaxnym.livejournal.com]

I thought it was Yiddish too, but Wikipedia says the slang word derives from the soda pop.

What I particularly love about this seen is that the word "moxie" is being applied to ... Er Thom.

Don't get me wrong, I love Er Thom, I adore Er Thom, I would happily marry my daughter to Er Thom (er, if he weren't far too old for her, madly in love with someone else, and a fictional character, I mean), but I am trying to think of a major character in the series who has *less* moxie than Er Thom...

(yes, I know it does mean "courage" or "daring", which is very Korval, but I've always heard it used with connotations of brassiness, brashness, and even a bit of chutzpah...)

[elbales]

Luken? He doesn't seem long on brass...

[rolanni.livejournal.com]

I think Luken could call up some moxie, in the service of getting the Very Best Price for that rug over there...

Word!

[(Anonymous)]

I see Luken as a very polite, very courteous version of what I call the-standard-Persian-rug-merchant. I guess I'm trying to avoid used-car-salesman when I talk about Persian-rug-merchants. But Luken is very smooth - hence very successful.

Er Thom was a relatively successful Trader by that point - amethyst ring and all - so he had to have been acquainted with audacity. The risk management style called go-big-or-go-home. :)

It'll be interesting to see this book when it comes out - I never
paid this much attention to itals before.
Lauretta

[rolanni.livejournal.com]

Yeah, Er Thom is a little too solemn for true moxie, but there you have it. Fly in the face of custom and people form all kinds of inaccuracies about your nature...

[(Anonymous)]

Isn't "moxie" roarin' twenties gangster's slang? gangster's moll, dollface, moxie, etc.? I think Wikipedia is lying...

~Lizah C

[rolanni.livejournal.com]

I think Wikipedia's off-base with the allegation that the word came after the soft drink. Where I grew up "moxie" meant something on the order of "audaciously gutsy".

[(Anonymous)]

Well before the days of Wikipedia I learned that "moxie" as a stand-alone word came from the soft drink. While I've never tried a moxie (anyone know where I can find some? Maybe it's time for a Google search...), my understanding is that moxie has a "bold" and unusual taste, which led to the slang usage.

Mouse and Dragon eArc available!

[mtz322.livejournal.com]

What a nice way to start the day. Got it, now off to read it.

Re: Mouse and Dragon eArc available!

[(Anonymous)]

Oh no! Bad, Bad Baen. I have to pack to leave for a trip tomorrow.

Brom

moxie the soda, (make sure you get the real thing, or not)

[(Anonymous)]

I've had Moxie at various times throughout my life, it's like root beer, but more bitter, almost a medical tonic taste. Not for everyone. (Grew up in New England but not Maine). My father and I liked it, no one else in the family would drink it.

Last summer an establishment named Moxie that sells ice cream for the summer, also sold cans of Moxie. A woman there said it was a new formula version, that there were now two companies selling two versions. Don't know how true it is.

The newer formula was less medicinal, more like a combo of cloves and birch beer and root beer.

Angie